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Tech Talk >> Engine Repair/Modifications >> Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
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Message started by SuperStockAMX on 04/28/15 at 04:02:13

Title: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 04/28/15 at 04:02:13

Taking this brand spankin' new Edelbrock Air-Gap RPM and milling the spider off:
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3569_zps4gickfts.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3569_zps4gickfts.jpg.html)

Then I take this Edelbrock Victor 383 and mill the side flanges off:
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3570_zpsssaenapt.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3570_zpsssaenapt.jpg.html)

Presently shopping a few machine shops with Bridge Ports. I'm intentionally avoiding race shops if possible. Why? Business for them seems slow and they want to gouge anybody that walks in the door! I'd like to find a guy working out of his two-car garage or something. I should have a shop by the end of the week.

I previously had an ICH intake with quite a bit of plenum work. I found it to be much to much manifold for my 390 Super Stock application.

I'm theorizing this will be a happy medium between a Torker and a sheet metal intake ($3500 +/-). To do a sheet metal intake right, I would need more hood clearance and stock hoods are mandated in my class.

So far I'm at $578 through Summit.

Pictures of progress will follow...

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Class Guy on 04/28/15 at 11:36:25

Love it. Jeff!!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 04/29/15 at 02:48:59

Today:
One machinest down, several to go!  
Easy way would just use adapters to the Victor 383 intake and ad a valley pan and water cross-over. But for some reason I guess I just want to do it the hard way.
Victor side slabs are 35* angle while RPM side slabs are 45* angle. Will alter the Victor to the needed AMC angle while milling. Looks like I will have to put a window in the RPM intake's valley cover to fully weld the Victor spider up. I'm wondering if there is a way to attach the two intakes without welding?

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by tomslik on 04/29/15 at 11:00:09


SuperStockAMX wrote:
Today:
One machinest down, several to go!  
Easy way would just use adapters to the Victor 383 intake and ad a valley pan and water cross-over. But for some reason I guess I just want to do it the hard way.
Victor side slabs are 35* angle while RPM side slabs are 45* angle. Will alter the Victor to the needed AMC angle while milling. Looks like I will have to put a window in the RPM intake's valley cover to fully weld the Victor spider up. I'm wondering if there is a way to attach the two intakes without welding?



how about the glue bodyshops use?
Fusor?

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Rebel Machine on 04/29/15 at 22:30:08

Isn't the Herman Lewis intake already like that?

I've often wondered if the same could be done with a Magnason or other low-profile supercharger.

-Steve-

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 04/29/15 at 23:47:38

Tom,
Interesting idea. Devcon Aluminum putty should work but I'll explore your idea.

Rebel,
No, Adkins takes a Torker and "sorta kinda" makes it into an air-gap. It's only open on the sides, not the front to back. Victor intakes are higher operating range than Torker with straighter runners.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Class Guy on 04/30/15 at 15:57:50

Depending how good your machinist is and how well the parts line up you can connect the parts with a variety of aircraft epoxies.  Huey helicopters attach tail skin to the frame with epoxy and both pieces are aluminum.  I had a friend who worked for AO Smith when they were first developing wound fiberglass driveshafts for Ford.  They used some epoxy from the aircraft industry to bond the aluminum ends to the fiberglass tubes that would not come loose during torque tests - the tube would shatter or the end would twist off before the bond would separate.  Do some investigation there.

A secondary solution is to weld the lower part of the section through the intake side of the port.  I would want to bolt the lower part to a Block with heads to weld the tops and sides from outside to help keep the assembly from warping too bad.  But the lower part could be welded afterward through the port opening where it bolts to the head.  Needless to say, be sure to have a deep chamfer on the parts so you can get good penetration that will remain after you clean up the port with a grinder.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Frank Swygert on 05/01/15 at 11:57:14

JB Weld or any other good epoxy will work fine. I've repaired blocks with JB Weld, and some aluminum pieces that aren't heavily stressed -- like an intake. Racers have used JB Weld/similar epoxy to modify the floors of intakes in the old days.... probably still do.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by javsst on 05/04/15 at 13:37:27

Curious to see how the graft is done and how the manifold will perform.  Should be be interesting!

Though I can't help but laugh seeing that pruning saw in the back of the first picture.   ;D

Good luck!

Steve

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/04/15 at 14:16:40

FINALLY...somebody caught my little joke!  ;D

A little sidetracked this week as I have to bring the AMX to a chassis shop this week to fabricate and weld some tabs to the frame rails so I can ditch the motor mounts and use a engine plate and mid-plate. Need to throw an engine together (block, heads, pan, headers, starter, bell housing and clutch linkage) so they can insure clearances are all there.

Latter this week I can go looking for a machine shop on the intakes.


Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by scott on 05/04/15 at 20:48:53

No way I would trust gluing it together. One crack in the glue joint near a port & it goes lean on that cylinder & blows lots of expensive engine work to pieces.

Weld it, & figure out a way to pressure test it to be sure there are no leaks.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/05/15 at 00:12:44

All right....found a shop that seems confined and close to home. Dropped off the parts today. Should see some progress by mid-week!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/06/15 at 20:58:18

Progress!

Edelbrock AMC RPM Air Gap with spider removed:
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3597_zpslgafjeua.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3597_zpslgafjeua.jpg.html)

For those that don't believe in port matching:
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3598_zps0bwdquxl.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3598_zps0bwdquxl.jpg.html)

The concept:
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3596_zps6texzvxg.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3596_zps6texzvxg.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by DragRacingSpirit on 05/07/15 at 14:55:21

Looks like it is going to take some serious modification to the runners and plenum, the ports are not even close.

Is there any other engine that would be closer to aligning than a 383 mopar ?

This makes me wonder what it would take to graft a Weiand Hi-Ram for a 383.

It might be cheaper than having a custom sheet metal tunnel ram fabricated, if it could be accomplished.

A UR-18 would take so much modification to fit my Indy Heads it would not be worth destroying one to make it fit.

Very interesting thread.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/07/15 at 15:23:30

I should have take a picture with the runners facing each other. They line up almost perfectly. What your looking at doesn't take into account the flanges of the Victor are not completely removed yet and the front flange in the picture is interfering with the water crossover.
I'll get that shot latter today if I have time to go over there.
Once he gets more done, I'll take my block, heads & gaskets over so we can port match the base unit.
Once we get to welding it will be with the intake bolted to the engine to alliviate warping. I'm sure it will still need to be machined on the side slabs before it is all said and done.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Class Guy on 05/07/15 at 15:59:12

So this is where the pruning saw comes in?  I'm excited!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by needafasterAMX on 05/07/15 at 16:14:34

If it works out, I think that will be a very nice intake, I was looking at the chevy super victor intake to do something like that one day, but never got passed the thinking about it stage.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/07/15 at 18:57:52

Anything can be done but using a Chevy intake will take a lot more work than my pruning saw can handle! You would have to discect the plenum to spread the runners out. Not only more work but I'm guessing the plenum volume may be excessive at that point? I already had one intake with excessive plenum volume (ICH) and engine was very lazy in acceleration. And that was with nearly 3# of filler in it.
There's a guy in Tucson, AZ that will build a billet intake for $3500. I like the idea, and he knows what he's doing, but that's not in my "new economy" budget!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by DragRacingSpirit on 05/07/15 at 19:14:06


SuperStockAMX wrote:
I should have take a picture with the runners facing each other. They line up almost perfectly. What your looking at doesn't take into account the flanges of the Victor are not completely removed yet and the front flange in the picture is interfering with the water crossover.
I'll get that shot latter today if I have time to go over there.
Once he gets more done, I'll take my block, heads & gaskets over so we can port match the base unit.
Once we get to welding it will be with the intake bolted to the engine to alliviate warping. I'm sure it will still need to be machined on the side slabs before it is all said and done.


Some more pictures after you get the flanges cut off the Victor would be great !

I see some used low deck 383 Weiand Hi-Rams on ebay for reasonable.

Depending on how your project goes I might have to buy one just to scope it out.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/07/15 at 19:54:28

Yes, will have pictures before welding. FYI - the quality of the welding goes south with used intakes. I'm no welder but I'm told the oil can never be fully removed from the cast aluminum, even with baking. That's why I bought new.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Class Guy on 05/08/15 at 11:46:44


SuperStockAMX wrote:
Yes, will have pictures before welding. FYI - the quality of the welding goes south with used intakes. I'm no welder but I'm told the oil can never be fully removed from the cast aluminum, even with baking. That's why I bought new.


Absolutely!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by TUBBED_X on 05/08/15 at 15:05:35

some pics.
http://amcdragracing.freeforums.org/post26879.html#p26879

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/09/15 at 04:49:58

Today:
Port alignment
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3615_zpst0dfcqbc.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3615_zpst0dfcqbc.jpg.html)

Port alignment up close:
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3614_zpsddh6moqr.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3614_zpsddh6moqr.jpg.html)

Bolt hole alignment (outer bolt holes of the Victor 383 almost line up with second set in (front and back) of the AMC Air-Gap base intake)
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3616_zpsn7mmvsrj.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3616_zpsn7mmvsrj.jpg.html)
See the smudged lines on the #4 runner? That's approximately how much will ultimately be milled off of the Victor 383 intake runners. Presently, the angle is set on the Victor 383 runners to mate with the AMC base.
Next he has to make a steel plate to mount the carb flange to. This will attach to the Bridgeport.

This was with the R4B, 780 VS Holley and .477" G19 lift hydraulic cam:
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/1_zpsctz4vji2.jpeg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/1_zpsctz4vji2.jpeg.html)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/14/15 at 05:44:54

Now we are in the "shoulda done this but not that" mode.

Basically, machinist  is now telling me he should have cut the Victor in half fore and aft at the plenum and remade the plenum and carb pad. So maybe the next guy can learn here...
There's about .100" of milling to the Victor left to go. So far there's been about .900" already removed. As you mill, the Victor ports are pulled inwards, towards the center between cylinders 3-5 & 4-6 due to the curvature of the runners.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3654_zpssobhowqo.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3654_zpssobhowqo.jpg.html)

As you can see, the port on the left side of this photo is pretty much lined up. The right side ports are off significantly. As another .100" is milled off, port alignment will get worse.

DragRacingSpirit: a tunnel ram would be perfect for this job due to straight runners.

Close up of left side:

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3652_zpsqwsklbj1.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3652_zpsqwsklbj1.jpg.html)

Machinist wants to split the Victor in half between the 2-5 and 4-6 runners and get the ports aligned.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3654_zpssobhowqo.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3654_zpssobhowqo.jpg.html)

Porter (whom I have a lot of confidence in) suggests not cutting the plenum and slicing the right side runners horizontally anywhere above the NOS bungs, moving the runners as nessessary and then welding the runners and letting him take care of the mis-alignment with grinding and Devcon. I seem to like that idea better than rebuilding a plenum and carb pad. Sleeping on that for now.

But for now I am bringing my block and heads to the machinist and we will fit the AMC RPM base to the long-block and see how the base manifold ports line up with the cylinder head ports before we move any further forward on the grafting. I'll bring it over Monday next week.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/14/15 at 06:08:13

Top view

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3655_zpsvbhnt3qv.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3655_zpsvbhnt3qv.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by tsanchez on 05/14/15 at 18:31:44

I would have cut the center divider out of the amc base intake and used the mopar intake center, milled around it to maintain the distance. You can still cut it out and add a divider to the top to center it.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/14/15 at 18:38:16

Im not following your description....

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by needafasterAMX on 05/15/15 at 02:50:13

I am thinking if you would have cut the ports out of the amc base (square to match the victor ports) and the flanges off the victor , It may of lined up better, But hard to tell from pictures.
You would not had to mill so much off the victor.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/15/15 at 03:01:49


needafasterAMX wrote:
I am thinking if you would have cut the ports out of the amc base (square to match the victor ports) and the flanges off the victor , It may of lined up better, But hard to tell from pictures.
You would not had to mill so much off the victor.


The ports, or "spider" as I reffered the ports as, were cut out of the AMC base first.
Then as the side slabs are a different angle between AMC and Mopar of 10*, the Mopar Victor 383 side slabs (or flanges) were milled for the same degree as AMC. Even with that, the Victor is wider overall than the remaining AMC base. Therefore, most, but not all, of the Victor flanges were cut off.
Since the angles are now the same, the amount milled off the Victor will drop the Victor further down the AMC base. We are holding off on the final milling on the Victor, which is approximately .100" remaining to mill, until we get a better idea of port alignment on the AMC base to my engine.
What may be hard to recognize in the pictures is the Victor runners have a curve that becomes more prominant as the runners are milled down. That's why I said a straight runner tunnel ram would be perfect for this venture far as I can tell.
It's aluminum. We have cutters and welders, not giving up!  

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by needafasterAMX on 05/15/15 at 22:16:06

What I was tiring to say is it may of lined up better if you cut the ports out of the side slabs(mounting flange of the amc base)  
Then you would have the thickness of the mounting flange of the amc base or mounting flange to play with the victor.

anyways you will get it to work out.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/27/15 at 05:36:56

Latest news. I was supposed to get the block, heads & head gaskets I intend on using over to the shop for final fit on the base (port match) last week. Got tied up with work and finally delivered today. Of course now he's a little busier but he said he could get back on it in another week.
I deliberated for a week over which block I wanted to use as there were pluses and minuses on both blocks and rotating assemblies. While the 4-bolt 55 mm cam tunnel is plenty trick, it needs slight crank repair to the 5-6 pin and a new set of rods. That's just out of budget with my zero budget. So back to the 2-bolt block as it has a perfectly good rotating assembly and even the rings and bearings are still good. It has two sleeves (also 5-6 from a broken cam as a result of failed Schubeck lifter!) and repairs to the inner head-bolt holes on four holes where the cracks between the holes were pinned and the holes heli-coiled. Will be using head stud's instead of bolts. This is a filled block with 50mm roller cam bearings and bushed lifter bores along with all the normal squaring, decking and line boring. The roller cam bearings will be coming out and replaced with rabbit 55mm bearings as I have two roller cams that are 55mm. And about now I wish one of them was a 50mm as I like the roller bearing cam tunnel the best but a new cam is around $850.00 and a very, very long wait. And I'm not really in the mood for waiting anymore!
Finally sat the Torker next to the Victor today as I delivered parts. It looks better than I thought (even though it is still away from final). I wake up thinking "OMG, all this work to the Victor and in the end it looks just like the Torker!"
Obviously the manifolds are sitting on two different brand X blocks as the bench was full but here's a comparison.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3706_zpss2chrbry.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3706_zpss2chrbry.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 06/05/15 at 14:45:53

Some slight progress, base is fitted to my engine. Won't finalize machine work until welding is done because warping will no doubt occur.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3829_zps8iqanbif.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3829_zps8iqanbif.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3833_zpsu7ciuaqw.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3833_zpsu7ciuaqw.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3834_zpsbtojsp9k.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3834_zpsbtojsp9k.jpg.html)

Spider is further along

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3830_zps9lkkgflj.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3830_zps9lkkgflj.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3831_zps9opzsv0p.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3831_zps9opzsv0p.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3832_zps8q3jkzqh.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3832_zps8q3jkzqh.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Rebel Machine on 06/05/15 at 22:33:52

Is there a crack on the left of this pic? Did that happen when the plenum was removed?

BTW: Tell me about those neat cam roller bearings.

-Steve-

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3598_zps0bwdquxl.jpg

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 06/06/15 at 00:18:16

That's just a casting flaw, nothing cracked.
that is a 50mm bearing and I recommend it as it does not interfere with the oil feed line which travels from the main bearing saddle to the cam bearing core. Allows more oil to the main & rod bearings as the cam will be slash fed. However, and this is a big one, you will not have a fun time on cams as they become custom made and you will have a hard time getting a 50mm "spool" (that's the rough draft of a cam). Available from LSM for $650 or so and then you have to have the cam lobes ground in...all in all it's about $850 for a steel billet roller cam. Probably not what you cared to hear! I have a 55mm rabbit bearing I'm now using. Comp Cams has some 55mm cams in inventory. Bigger cams...no twist or flex, better lobes.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 06/06/15 at 05:19:31

[quote="Hurst390"]Did you happen to sit the mopar intake on the engine before modifying it? i'm curious how close it was in stock form..[/quote]

The runners are too long and the side slabs are at a different angle; the mopar intake is 10* less angle than the AMC. Plus the mopar is a dry intake. The curvature of the runners is what bites, the more you cut, the more of a mis-alignment there is. That's why this would be an ideal mopar tunnel ram to AMC candidate from what I'm seeing here.
"Could of" split the plenum and re-aligned the runners but that would have been major surgery for a carb pad and filling and welding a plenum. I just didn't want to go there.
As of now the decision has been made to cut the rear runners on both sides; somewhere down the middle, across the runners. High enough so welding will be accessible. Then the lowest section of the rear runners will be moveable for port alignment with the base manifold. That of course will create a jog where the cut was made but manifold man is not the least concerned. So how to cut? Bridgeport seems out as you need a really long cutter that will flex if it's a thin cutter and that will take a wide path of material out. I was at the point of using an industrial bandsaw but an idea popped up as I remembered I know a guy with a water jet that can make a laser like thin cut. So that's what I'm doing.
So mopar manifold will have final fitment at the machine shop by the weekend I'm told. Then next week off for water jet. Then tack weld the parts together and then it goes to the manifold porter. After that, final weld and finally one last trip to machine shop to cure any warpage that may have occurred with welding (although welder says that won't be an issue as were bolting the intake to heads...but I have to believe there will be some warpage). Last will be addressing cosmetic issues by cleaning up welds, glass beading texture back in and possibly powder coating to alma type finish.
FYI - finally had the torker and the grafted intake on a level table side-by-side today. The Victor is 1.5" to 1.625" taller at present than the torker. The torker's carb pad is angled 3.2* and the Victor's carb pad is 0*.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SKeown on 06/07/15 at 20:07:08


Way back I tried a R4B, Offy 360* and Torker on the same engine using the same carb. I saw no difference between the three even though the Offy was considerably shorter than the others.

SKeown

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 06/08/15 at 06:00:35

Which goes against the regurgetated advice I see on these forums on picking aftermarket intake manifolds. For example, I had a Torker on a bone stock 343 (still had log manifolds) with a 4-speed & 3.54's. Took it off because I was selling the car and wanted a more stock look. The Torker was better all around with no "loss of power below X RPM". And I managed 10.60's on an R4B this year with an  Autolite. Personally, for your average or better than average street performance AMC, I;d throw a Torker on and a 780-850 Holley on just about anything.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SKeown on 06/09/15 at 02:35:16


The day I did the intake comparison the 68 390 had a solid lifter cam, Hooker headers and Holley 850 carb. I made two passes with each intake, the MPH averaged out identical. I came away feeling the R4B was probably the better all around choice. When I replaced the 68 engine with a 70 390 I replaced the intake with a R4B which allowed 6500+ operation without any difficulty.

Personal experience is the most credible of any information.

SKeown

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 06/09/15 at 05:15:51

Found out today you can't water jet a hollow object, can't keep the water in a straight line. Now I know!
Glad they told me ahead of time  ::)
Cold saw action time.  :-/

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 06/19/15 at 05:41:41

Well, well, well....shop, which also machines parts for robotics and other precision machine parts, decided it would be OK to cut the rear runners with a sawzall. And no, that was never discussed. I will say they did a fine job. For using a sawmill. But I sure wasn't happy. But it was done and I know it will be welded at that point anyway so that's the way it is.
Dropped the pieces off at welder today. Tomorrow I need to get block and heads over to him to use as a jig.

On a brighter note, I picked up a custom built AMC oil pan with a passenger side kick-out on it for $300 with shipping!

I also bought a set of NASCAR take-off .937" Jesel cassidium coated keyway roller lifters for $299.95 off ebay. These are about $2,400 new and a friend suggested them as he bought a set for his Super Stock Mustang. He told me they looked like new when the arrived and he now has over 400 runs on his and no wear on anything. He has 1200# open spring pressure and I'll be at 1,050#'s on mine. Now I just need the required lifter bore bushings which are $750 from Jesel or around $200 or so when they are on eBay. As I already have bushed lifter bores, that part of the block work is already done and I basically just need to swap out for the keyway bushings.

Welding will be done by next week.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 06/30/15 at 23:18:21

All welded up and now at the porting shop. Had to cut the valley cover out to get full welds around the runners. Progress will no doubt slow at this point. He will also soften up some of the beads. I think next time I would say cut a pocket out of the base manifold and insert the spider runners half way through the pockets and then weld / build up from the side slabs. That was mentioned by somebody here.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_4146_zpswqhqlugt.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_4146_zpswqhqlugt.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_4145_zpso1sszv7i.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_4145_zpso1sszv7i.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_4147_zpswgcthbph.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_4147_zpswgcthbph.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_4152_zpsikzpzptv.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_4152_zpsikzpzptv.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_4151_zpsowrmnnzd.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_4151_zpsowrmnnzd.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_4153_zpsfyywo1yz.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_4153_zpsfyywo1yz.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Ken_Parkman on 07/01/15 at 02:58:12

Holy crap that is a lot of work!!

Fascinating project none the less. Really interested in how it works out. Seems like a great idea, but will be interesting how the final runner lengths work out and how it performs when finished.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SKeown on 07/01/15 at 04:29:34


An air gapped Torker the hard way. There's a fellow that visits the forums that goes about it differently.

SKeown

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 07/01/15 at 05:01:27

Other than it's a single 4bbl single plane, it's quite different that a Torker.
Edelbrock makes a Torker and a Victor both for a low-deck Mopar Big-Block. There's a reason for doing so and they are not the same intake. You can read the catalog.
I already have a semi air-gapped Torker. The purpose of this was not for airflow around the exterior of the runners. That would be a waste of time.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SKeown on 07/01/15 at 05:14:04

This is what I'm referring to:

http://theamcforum.com/forum/topic71341_post646190.html#646190

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by WestOzJavelinMan on 07/05/15 at 22:47:55

For sale at the moment, old NASCAR manifold apparently:

http://www.theamcforum.com/forum/uploads/611/Custom_NASCAR.jpg

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 07/07/15 at 05:23:16

FYI - Seller tells me it is a Weiand Team G SBC intake with a Holley Dominator carb flange adapted (nicely I might ad) to a standard passenger car AMC head (not the NASCAR heads). He has some pretty rare stuff listed for sale on this forum! Intake is $1,000 asking price.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by WestOzJavelinMan on 07/07/15 at 21:17:38

SuperstockAMX, do you still have the base plate of the Mopar manifold? It would be interesting to see how well the port align with the AMC heads to know if cutting the runners into the base plate would be a more viable option for what you have done.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 07/07/15 at 22:07:29

No..that's a bunch of chips on the floor! Your only going to gain the thickness of the AMC base. I don't have it here but 3/16" to 1/4"? It may help but it would still be out of alignment. Or you could split the intake at the plenum along the X axis and maybe the Y axis, line up the runners (which I believe will still need milling; at the very least to correct the angularity difference and removal of the Victor flanges), and then mill off the carb flange, install a new carb flange or pad, and then weld that all up.
That looks like the approach that was taken on the Weiand SBC intake posted here (I think). It looks like the Y axis was cut as it looks like the plenum has been widened up at the transition point between the innermost runners.
Now you also have to consider plenum volume which was a major consideration to me. Too big is a problem which I experienced previously with a much modified Indy Cylinder Head intake manifold. After a lot of work, your results may be entirely different, it was a pig and the engine was very lazy. Bolting on a Torker modified by A.H. Adkins was worth approximately 20+ HP or .15 in ET reduction.

And in the end? I'll bet Edelbrock builds this and you can buy one for less than $500. They are watching this thread....

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Hurst390 on 07/07/15 at 23:00:24

You should try a torker modified for a 4500 carb like skeown posted and run a 4150 carb on it..thats what I'm running on my stock car engine and it likes it..

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 07/07/15 at 23:12:30

I have a Torker and am looking for something better. I race in a performance based class run under prescribed indexes where running as far under the index as possible is imperative. I guess no different than your dirt track car.
There is nothing wrong with a Torker but I have to believe that there is a better way. I  may be wrong, I may be right. But I think after 45+ years it's time to look at other options.

And I have to admit I'm confused. What benefit would I see with a Torker modified to a Dominator flange and then re-modified to a 4150 flange? On the Torker I ran I had 2" of carb spacer.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Hurst390 on 07/08/15 at 10:31:58

This intake is not as nice as it could be but it was cheap...you get the idea?
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/Hurst390/P1014049.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/Hurst390/media/P1014049.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SKeown on 07/08/15 at 13:33:18

 A comparison between one of the air gapped Torkers and a unmodified Indy manifold on a 600 HP engine performed on the "dyno dayz here at last" post on the other forum.

"I spoke briefly with Dino yesterday (I am on vacation), he said that the Torker lost about 20 HP at peak and 7 ft-lbs at peak compared to the Indy manifold. He added that the Torker was not better anywhere, so the Indy seems to be the best answer for my engine. He added that he had to lean it out more from the carb settings for the Indy manifold, which makes sense due to the smaller plenum. He may try a run with the 1" carb spacer under the Torker."

SKeown

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 07/08/15 at 17:43:31

I think we are comparing apples to oranges.
As previously stated, I had an Indy intake modified heavily with about 2.75 pounds of filler in the plenum by an expert who still thought it was a POS for my application but he worked with what I gave him to work with. That 390 Super Stock engine with .773" lift roller cam as I recall, ported -291's (2.02"/1.68", 175 cc / 75cc runner volume, 50cc chamber, 300 CFM flow all per NHRA mandated specs) with a 4300 Autolite made 634 HP on Stuska dyno.
Dyno is one thing, track is another. As I stated, it was lazy off the line and that's with a stick launching at 6800 RPM. So ultimately the Adkins Torker proved better in accelerating the car. And the difference was immediately seen & felt on the starting line going from 4"-6" wheelies and "ho hum" feeling of acceleration to "oh boy!" and 1.5' plus wheel stands and shifting into second in the air.

Now the combination is similar with slight head improvements on -993 heads, revised valve angles due to NHRA rule changes (anything goes), same shortblock, better oil pan with kickout and Redline Racing cam with completely different specs and .850" lift.
Completely different application than others using as far as I can tell. And as said, if it's a flop, it's a flop but I still have the Torker. But no way would I buy another Indy. I already know it's not right for my application. It is right for other applications as I see it.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SKeown on 07/08/15 at 18:47:11


Hopefully you're experimental effort pays off. Obviously the track and dyno both frown on Indy's intake plenum volume in most cases. I recall how Ken Parkman reduced the one on his dyno shootout engine too. I found that back to back dyno results interesting though.

SKeown  

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 08/13/15 at 19:18:15

Build post has been dead for awhile so here's the latest progress report on everything else:
Crower solid roller lifters (no needle option) arrived a few weeks ago. Picking up block from machine shop tomorrow IF the 55mm cam bearings arrive. Once I have block I can check deck height and piston to valve clearances. Hopefully I won't have to make any corrections but if I do, then I will take care of what needs to be taken care of.
Dropping off the car at chassis shop for k-frame modifications to allow more room for oil pan. Also adding an anti-roll bar to the rear.
Will take care of pre-assembly work, order pushrods, etc., and then have an appointment for 09/14 in California to get it final honed. Proceed to find assembly and by then the intake manifold will be done.
Goal is some local test-n-tune and Las Vegas NHRA Divisional late October. That's the playbook...hope it works!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by KyleCim on 08/14/15 at 13:16:29

Interested to see what the ARB will do for you, I will be following!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 08/15/15 at 05:33:02


KyleCim wrote:
Interested to see what the ARB will do for you, I will be following!


I give up...whats an ARB?  :-?

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 08/16/15 at 06:18:15


SuperStockAMX wrote:
[quote author=KyleCim link=1430193733/45#56 date=1439558189]Interested to see what the ARB will do for you, I will be following!


I give up...whats an ARB?  :-?
[/quote]

Duh....came to me as I was laying in bed last night.... ::)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 08/17/15 at 22:41:42

Kyle, ARB is to narrow as delivered from Chassis Engineering. It's the "Top Gun". I'll see if they will swap out to longer or wider tubing but I doubt it. Also chassis shop said this was more for a tube chassis car and he didn't like something about this ARB in my factory frame car. I'll stop by later to get a clearer understanding. May have this one for sale!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/02/15 at 07:16:02

What a mess! Two of the runner dividers (opposite corners) needed to be cut out and new walls are being fabricated to get the air flowing in the right direction. To much "twist" in the walls. This is not a project for the beginner...boy am I getting schooled! I'm confident he will get it done and done right.
I'm still trying to figure what went wrong. Other's here have interjected they would have cut a "pocket" out of the side slabs of the AMC Performer base in order to keep the Victor 383 runner's longer. I see now that would have helped... a little, not a lot.
Modified Torker will be tried first so I have real world data on the Victor.

Mocking up one short block and for a variety of reasons have elected to build my other short-block. Sending that crank off tomorrow to Shaftech in Ohio. And I just bought a new set of 5.850" Oliver rods with Honda rod journals to match the crank. Yes, that is legal in Super Stock.
This block already has Pro-Gram 4-bolt mains in the center and 2-bolt mains on the ends, bushed lifter bores and 55mm cam tunnel. I don't know if I mentioned it but I ended up buying a set of Crower no needle option roller lifters.
Cam is .500" lift at the lobe with 1.70 intake and 1.65 exhaust rocker ratio. T & D shaft rockers.
And I'm not happy that ARP sells AMC head studs that are to long! As I have dealt with this in the past, I know it is a problem. Before I cut the studs to length but that was before they had the nice broached ends for an allen wrench. I'd like to keep that feature so if ARP doesn't offer studs in the length I want...gulp!...it will be custom sizing.

I am happy with my new ARP rod bolt stretch gauge. If anybody is looking for one it is well worth the extra $ as I've owned the cheaper one from Comp Cams before. The difference is a .050" sweep on the gauge that reads in .005" increments and a much, much stronger spring mechanism in the plunger of the gauge which secures the unit to the rod much better. And that new digital torque wrench is better than I imagined it would be.

Still waiting (sine 08/30/15) for my Bulltear oil pump gears and a few other parts... :(

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Hurst390 on 11/07/15 at 19:28:06

Bill Ketchum found this I ordered one to see how close it is..
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-29559/overview/

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 11/07/15 at 20:10:45

Wow...smokin deal! Good basis to start. Is this something you would start on right away?

My crank should be on it's way to me any old day now. Then I can really start making some progress. Just got off the phone with my manifold guy. He's making progress reshaping the runner dividers to work like they should using 5052 H32 3/16" aluminum.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Hurst390 on 11/09/15 at 00:03:03

I'll look into what it takes when it arrives..
If it takes a whole bunch of work this looks a little better for a big effort
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2956/overview/

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 11/09/15 at 00:43:39

As you are a bracket type racer and no rules to deal with as I must, I would look at almost any Mopar B engine (383) tunnel-Ram if you want something like that. It's the curves in the runners that are troublesome on the standard under hood intake manifolds. Tunnel Ram looks like it should line right up.
Don't forget the cylinder bore spacing on AMC is 4.750" and that is a bit bigger than the SBC of 4.400". Pontiac is 4.620"...that looks better than the SBC. In fact, Buick is the only other engine that has the same 4.750" bore spacing as AMC. I just googled this and wish I had done this awhile ago. Lists all bore center specs for all makes:
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/bore-center-c.htm

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Hurst390 on 11/14/15 at 12:20:15

I looked it over and decided to use the free return shipping label summit sent.  :)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 11/15/15 at 02:48:03

Was it because it was a semifinished product or a SBC intake just didn't look like a viable option to you?
As a side note, after seeing the dyno results of Jim's Tooling AMC Victor EFI intake converted to 4150 plenum top compared to an Adkins Torker, I'm really excited about my project here.
Stopped by my manifold guy and all I can say is I'm glad he's in charge. Retired GM engineer from the Mesa, AZ proving grounds. He was kind of a "project man" over there. Real can-do attitude.
Crank ships to me Monday. Once received I can measure and then order King bearings.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 02/21/16 at 06:19:14

No pictures to share but finally making real progress on the intake manifold. Basically, he is re-building the intake runner dividers; say about the last 2/3rds towards the exit. He is doing this by making templates that are maybe 1/2" wide and appropriate height and transferring that template to 3/16" aluminum and welding that piece of aluminum into the runner. He is getting the shape he wants. He has completed all the welding and was in the process of grinding the divider of one pair of runners when I arrived today.
As I said before, this is no beginners job! But man, if I were air and fuel, I'd like this trip from the carb to the heads! This intake will of course be track tested against my Adkins modified Torker and ultimately against an Edelbrock modified for carb EFI AMC Victor intake as Jim's Tooling is building (as seen on that other AMC Forum). Boo Hiss...
Progress on the short block has been SLOW. Reason being business (Real Estate) has been BOOMING. And all four kids are in swim competion almost weekly right now. State finals in two weeks and two are in multiple events and one has zone final times so that's a trip to California in March.
I'll post pictures after he's done grinding.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/01/16 at 06:18:07

Here's an update which I posted on another forum:

Oh geeez....I just noticed I was running this "Build" and it's been a little over a year since I posted anything. You'll find this interesting...

The real issue: Maybe there was some oil pump cavitation going on but when I pulled the ATI balancer off I noticed it came off rather easily. Then I took the balancer removal tool off, grabbed the balancer and placed it, by hand, onto the post of the crank. Literally threw it on. Sometime later, I decide to see what's going on and measured the O.D. of the crank post and the I.D. of the ATI balancer. There is .012" clearance. Why" I have no idea but this ATI balancer has been on numerous engines of mine and it has always been the typical snug fit. I called ATI to determine the I.D. Spec. We determine it is out of spec, oversized .005". Assuming the machine shop honed it overzealously? And why would they do that? ATI confirms clearance should be .001"/.0015". I ask ATI "if there was .012" clearance, what would you expect the engine to look like?" They said "I imagine there would not be much bearing material on the mains and rods" (I had not told them the condition of the engine). I said that was exactly what I had. All bearings were shot. And the cam & lifters.
I check the O.D. of the crank post. It's undersized .007". Total clearance is .012" against a recommended .001". And why is the crank post undersize? I've used the crank and balancer before with no issues. I'm at a loss to explain how the balancer is .005" to big on the hub and the crank is .007" on the post! But we are not dealing with that shop anymore (after 15 years?) as the owner's kid is onboard and I think that is the issue.
So bottom line, I send the crank to Shaftech http://www.shaftech.com along with my balancer. I had them weld and get the #5/6 rod journal (could have fixed it with .010" turn but I wanted all rod pins the same) back to spec and weld and turn the post to .001" / .0015" clearance. Wow, do these guys do great work! I measured every machined part and it is exact across the board. Finish is outstanding!

Bought a new set of Oliver Rods. http://oliverracingparts.com/connecting-rods/gm/ultra-light-gm/
Bought Crower Bushed .903" roller lifters. http://www.crower.com/lifters/roller/mechanical.html?cat=1738
Bought a MasterLube brand pre-oiler / Accumulator (because now I'm really gun shy) http://masterlube.net/racing.htm
Bought King rod & main bearings in XP try-metal
Pro-Gram Engineering 4-bolt billet main caps. http://www.pro-gram.com
Super Stock heads ready to bolt on.
Super Stock roller cam is by Red Line Racing Cams w/ .500" lobe lift and is machined as well as the crankshaft. Stuff shouldn't be hidden in the block! http://www.redlineracingcams.com
Found a rare find...somebody that had a custom built AMC oil pan with a full kick-out and rear sump. Paid $250 for it. This is for dual external oil lines. I had to do a few modifications to it to clear my starter and relocate the oil pickup it had with driver side outlets to a swinging pick-up with passenger side outlets.
Also had to modify the pan for my starter.
Bought crank scrapper kit from Ishihara-Johnson using the teflon scrapper and passenger side / drivers side option. http://www.crank-scrapers.com
Building: I have grafted an AMC Edelbrock Air-Gap Performer RPM base to an Edelbrock Mopar Victor spider. Turned out to be way more complex than I initially thought but somebody needed to be the trailblazer as the Torker, while doing a good job, I felt there was something I could do better. The guy doing the work is a true artisan and this involved taking out and rebuilding new runner divider walls with re0contouring the angles. I just got an update from him today and all the welding is done and now time for epoxy and final finish. Will use the Torker first as we really want to see what improvement (or loss) we have here. I suspect it will be worth 20+ HP average.

Looking at my last post, I determined the Indy timing cover was NHRA SS legal but not the Razor oil pump. So OEM cover & pump for me. I did get anti-cavitation slots milled into the pump gear.
Since last year, besides accumulating parts, I added a Chris Alston Chassisworks rear-end mounted 40-spline ARB. I replaced the nylon bushings with oil-lite flanged bronze bushings as I could not fathom thin, nylon business were going to be safe. Despite what ChassiWorks advised. I found the bronze flange bushings that required a slight trim on the lathe for about $7.50 each. I was forced into a rear-end mounted ARB as I still have the OEM frame rails under the car. https://www.cachassisworks.com/p-2715-splined-arb-axle-housing-mou.aspx
I also added these trick front-end limiters instead of using chains: http://trzmotorsports.com/wp2/?product=double-aa-performance-travel-limiters

I have the crank in and all bearing clearances are spot on.
I just put #1 & #2 pistons / rods in the block the other day and Next week (Monday?) will have the cam degree'd and than I can check piston to valve clearance. Hopefully that doesn't lead to modifying pistons or even worse, new pistons. I suspect I'll be OK but I don't know for sure.

And to throw some gas on the fire, I stumbled across a pretty good deal on a new home for the family 04/27/16. All you readers would care about is it's got a 4-car garage with the 3rd bay being a tandem arrangement. So all my tools, benches, etc. go in the front and the AMX behind.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/01/16 at 06:20:04

And to throw some gas on the fire, I stumbled across a pretty good deal on a new home for the family 04/27/16. All you readers would care about is it's got a 4-car garage with the 3rd bay being a tandem arrangement. So all my tools, benches, etc. go in the front and the AMX behind. Also has a big side-yard with RV gate in a cup-de-sac. For an HOA neighborhood, it's a rare find and it sits on .48 acres. Basically about 3/4 mile east is where I'm moving in the same community. Wife gets a bigger kitchen, kids all get there own rooms, everybody gets a pool and I get a nicer garage! The moving starts mid-end of June. And I already told my wife the race car gets driven on the trailer and off the trailer at the new home! Because I know that a move is the worst thing for a car project as one item after the other goes missing. We've lived in this home since 1999 so I am not looking forward to going through the packing!
But it's all good and can't wait to indoctrinate the new neighbors to the race car....:)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Ken_Parkman on 05/06/16 at 16:32:41

For a damper to function it needs to be tight (not trying to bring up that other discussion - this is different) and some builders hone them loose cause they don't know what a damper does.

If you have that much wear it really sounds like the engine is being operated in a range where one of the exciting orders coincides with a crank natural frequency; not that surprising in a SS. With a loose fit there will be minimal damping, and the crank is really suffering. Usually also leads to a wrecked timing chain - what did it look like?. Another comment is different firing orders may change which exciting order is critical.

2 suggestions - really really carefully mag the crank for cracks cause there may have been insane crank killing fatigue stress from the undamped torsional vibration. Also don't assemble the damper with a loose fit - then it cannot work for torsional vibration and becomes a simple balancer.

ATI may want to change the formula for the damper in your case. They have deflection measurement instrumentation so they are way better than most other manufactures cause they do testing, but probably not a lot on AMC. They are probably not so good on what exciting orders are.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/06/16 at 16:46:44

All understood. I sent the crank to shaft tech in MI. They built up the post & #6/#5 rod journal and brought back to spec. I sent the Balancer with the crank. Fit now on balancer is .001"
Degreed the cam yesterday. Timing chain is still like new. Roll master.
Glad I looked into the fit. Explains everything...except how it got that way. I believe machine shop owner's son messed it up either didn't realize it or didn't want to say anything because he knows he F'd up.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/13/16 at 23:23:51

Manifold metal work is now done and waiting for epoxy he uses which is on back-order.
Tomorrow morning I have a few hours slated so I can work on checking piston to valve clearance.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_2049_zpsowkfyl0e.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_2049_zpsowkfyl0e.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_2050_zpswyguymcq.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_2050_zpswyguymcq.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/18/16 at 05:14:06

Yea! I have checked piston to valve clearance. With check springs, head gasket and lash I have a wopping .060" Intake and .010" Exhaust with the cam installed straight up (which is were I want it due to small tire I'm running). Yes, the race springs will ad .020"-.025" or so but obviously that won't help the exhaust valve clearance nearly enough. I'm going to advance the cam 4* just to see what that gives me on clearances then evaluate from there. I can trim the valves or deepen the piston valve pockets. I'd rather not give up any compression so it may be the valves.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by LenniAMC on 05/18/16 at 05:53:06

Are you gonna contact Edelbrock to see if they want to take a mold of the intake so they can maybe start producing it for the rest of us that are to lazy to go through all of this ?  ::)


Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/18/16 at 13:54:00

They do want to see it when it's done.

Elsewhere, on that other AMC forum, you can see development work on an AMC Victor EFI converted from throttle body EFI plenum to 4150 bolt pattern carburator plenum and mounting pad. Have you seen that?  

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by LenniAMC on 05/18/16 at 15:13:03

No I haven´t seen that. That sounds cool.
But I always thought that the Edelbrock EFI manifold had smaller runners than the Torker. But if its a Victor manifold should´t they be bigger ?

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SKeown on 05/18/16 at 19:16:41


SuperStockAMX wrote:
Yea! I have checked piston to valve clearance. With check springs, head gasket and lash I have a wopping .060" Intake and .010" Exhaust with the cam installed straight up (which is were I want it due to small tire I'm running). Yes, the race springs will ad .020"-.025" or so but obviously that won't help the exhaust valve clearance nearly enough. I'm going to advance the cam 4* just to see what that gives me on clearances then evaluate from there. I can trim the valves or deepen the piston valve pockets. I'd rather not give up any compression so it may be the valves.


Recently while assisting a friend degree the cam in his big block ford we discovered that checking cam timing off the pushrod produced a significant difference than checking the cam's position off the rocker with the actual springs to be run. That along with other experience has convinced me that the use of checker springs produces inaccurate results as far as timing events and P to V clearance. As strange as it seems you may discover a considerable difference in valve timing and P to V clearance with the engine assembled with the heavy springs?

SKeown

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by needafasterAMX on 05/19/16 at 00:35:44


LenniAMC wrote:
No I haven´t seen that. That sounds cool.
But I always thought that the Edelbrock EFI manifold had smaller runners than the Torker. But if its a Victor manifold should´t they be bigger ?



I have that efi manifold and yes the runners are smaller, but a little straighter then the torker, no bump on the inside
Very similar to a torker really    

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/19/16 at 01:38:34

There should be a link here but I do not know if the moderators allow that here.

I am buying one of those EFI Victors. It may be better or worse than my own creation; just as my creation may be better or worse than a Torker. You don't know until you try it. I do know the Torker (modified by Adkins with bump removed and air-gap created) was much, much better than a heavily modified 4150 Indy. Basically Torker was .015 quicker in ET. But that was for my combination of a Super Stock 390 AMC. Other applications will be different.
In regards to the Victor EFI, that manifold offers straighter runners than the Torker and I believe that is a good thing to have. The smaller runners will offer better velocity in my opinion and that seems to be proven with Jim who is leading that charge. He has his pundits, but weaving through the controversey and testing technique, all I can say is I am on-board. If the runners are to small, they can be enlarged.

What I do know is this project of mine is way over time and budget and is not something to consider for probably 98% of the AMC racers. I've got some good talent on it, aside from those welds :(  , and the bill will be a lot less than others could or would charge. I had two fabricators say "no way" would they take on this project. I could have bought a full custom billet (real billet from chunk of aluminum) intake for $3500 and it would have been done long ago. And much prettier...


Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/19/16 at 01:43:35


SKeown wrote:
[quote author=SuperStockAMX link=1430193733/60#73 date=1463548446]Yea! I have checked piston to valve clearance. With check springs, head gasket and lash I have a wopping .060" Intake and .010" Exhaust with the cam installed straight up (which is were I want it due to small tire I'm running). Yes, the race springs will ad .020"-.025" or so but obviously that won't help the exhaust valve clearance nearly enough. I'm going to advance the cam 4* just to see what that gives me on clearances then evaluate from there. I can trim the valves or deepen the piston valve pockets. I'd rather not give up any compression so it may be the valves.


Recently while assisting a friend degree the cam in his big block ford we discovered that checking cam timing off the pushrod produced a significant difference than checking the cam's position off the rocker with the actual springs to be run. That along with other experience has convinced me that the use of checker springs produces inaccurate results as far as timing events and P to V clearance. As strange as it seems you may discover a considerable difference in valve timing and P to V clearance with the engine assembled with the heavy springs?

SKeown[/quote]

I always re-check everything with the race hardware once I get to that point. This is a T & D shaft rocker on these heads and when I ran them before, with a different roller cam, everything was to spec on everything; including ratios, etc.
But suffice it to say, no amount of fudge factor will make .010" P/V exhaust clearance something acceptable.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SKeown on 05/19/16 at 21:02:51

Realizing how meticulous you are is why I've chimed in. Yes you're V to P clearance must be addressed and reducing the valves outer margin thickness will give you some additional clearance. I feel the slight compression loss by increasing the valve pocket depth would have less negative impact on performance than compensating by altering the cam's timing from ideal.

I've run Crane, T&D and currently Jesel rockers. I do feel the T&D are the absolute best available. I never did an in depth study of the Crane or T&D rockers as far as flex, but after seeing how much less lift Jimmy's Scorpion rockers produced in his Ford engine with roller springs vs checker springs I tested my Jesel's and definitely found a reduction with them as well. I can't say with certainty that rocker flex was the whole story, but in Jimmy's case he ran a cam gear drive and massive pushrods due to their length. In my case I run a timing chain set like you'rs and 11/32 Manton pushrods, being My block was line bored I acquired a timing chain to compensate for that and it was a bear to install with absolutely no slop. A lot of things come into play on a running engine that we can't measure. If you assemble the engine with checker springs on one EX valve and the heavy springs on another and compare the true valve lift with each you may be as surprised as I was? I would be interested in knowing the results.

SKeown

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Jonny B on 05/19/16 at 21:53:53

My past experience with scorpions is that the ratios fluctuate and are inaccurate.

Stupid crate and sealed engine racing.  Ended up getting a rocker arm ratio checker 'cause one tech guy decided to check them thinking people have cheated rockers just to find out that most are manufactured to a broader tolerance than what the tech guru wanted.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SKeown on 05/19/16 at 22:16:25


Jonny B wrote:
My past experience with scorpions is that the ratios fluctuate and are inaccurate.

Stupid crate and sealed engine racing.  Ended up getting a rocker arm ratio checker 'cause one tech guy decided to check them thinking people have cheated rockers just to find out that most are manufactured to a broader tolerance than what the tech guru wanted.


I don't doubt that and surely the Scorpion rockers can't be compared to T&D brand shaft rockers, but we were comparing the difference between checker springs and the real thing with the girdle fitted using the same rocker. Granted the Scorpion's were worse than the Jesel's but both were effected. Being Jeff is concerned about loosing compression I was hoping the actual amount of loss could be minimized. I've posted on Speedtalk to get a wider view from smarter people than me on the subject, the first response says to never use soft springs to check P to V clearance unless you want to end up with more clearance than needed. Both Jesel and T&D offer steel rockers and state they eliminate the deflection common with their aluminum counterparts. The current trend with Pro Stock engine builders is steel rods and rockers, there's a reason for that.

SKeown

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/20/16 at 19:35:08

It would be pointless to check against the race springs right now as I don't even have the race pushrods yet. I'm using 5/16ths .080" wall for checking purposes only because I had one that was the right length laying around.
Everything will be checked and I even have my eye on a new set of pistons from Gibtec. That will be looked into after I meet Kieth @ Total Seal either today or Monday to discuss different rings.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/20/16 at 19:41:29

FYI - I previously ran this T & D setup on another SS engine I raced. FWIW, the race springs on that engine did not flex the rockers. Nor did those springs change the cam timing. That cam was 55mm just as this new cam is. That is why you run the larger cam cores, to reduce or eliminate cam twist. And to get a larger / better lobe. I believe AMC stock specs is 48mm.
I did change from 1.625" OD springs to 1.55" OD springs and increased the spring rate also. These new springs being a higher seat and open pressure. Cam has bigger specs also.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/28/16 at 01:02:18

Tried to order a Trend pushrods today but did not beat the "day before 3 day weekend blues" so I could not get the order in. Just want one for now so I can actually check everything with the race springs installed.
Guess that will have to wait until Tuesday next week.
After sitting in with Keith at Total Seal, I'm just going to re-use my Diamond Pistons and go with new replacement APD rings...and oh, TS confirmed my rings were junk. Thanks Keith for throwing me wholesale pricing!
Keith sure spoke highly of Line2Line piston skirt coating and a "net zero" skirt clearance. I'm afraid I can't buy into that, anybody ever hear of them with any success stories?

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 06/08/16 at 05:58:53

Pushrods arrived and I finally got out to the garage tonight. Threw some clay on a piston, torqued it all down, ran the rotation. twice. Took it all apart again. To my amazement....
.165" I and .075" E. That's compared to .010" E with the checking spring. Race spring is 364# on the seat.
Based on the these findings, I'm going to advance the cam 2* and I'll bet it's perfect. Will find out...

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SKeown on 06/09/16 at 04:54:15


That's good news, and I feel with you're spring pressures and timing chain set that .090 exhaust P to V should be adequate. If it were me I would determine how much difference there actually is between the springs you'll be running and the checker spring, that's for convenience sake.

It's unlikely that the block is perfectly square, that the crank is perfectly indexed, that the valve seats are all the same depth or the cam is exact from front to rear. The rod lengths and piston pin bores are most likely uniform, but? Anyway, I would determine which head would go where and check every cylinder. It could be that reducing the needed margin on each exhaust valve would eliminate the need to tamper with the cam's current position?

I know I'm talking IRL engine details, but you can't be to careful with tolerance stack when walking a fine line. Besides, knowing you you'll be after a world's record!!

SKeown

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 06/13/16 at 23:16:09

I think you would be extremely surprised on the accuracy of the valve seats, deck height, cam lobes, and crank angles mentioned.
However, I am not confident in having .075"-.080" p/v on the exhaust. Factors to consider is I am not imune to being over zealous in the burnout, and I run a clutch Jerico which I shift clutch less. That will flare up the RPM between gears. Chain stretch will also retard cam timing which also lessens the clearance. So after consulting my cam grinder and Adkins, the consensus is advance the cam 3-4 degrees. Will probably have nearly equal intake & exhaust clearance. This will be adjusted next time I have pistons made.
Writing this on my way home from my midnight run to LA CA to drop off block and reciprocating assembly.
He says 3-week turnaround. 1) re-coat piston skirts. 2) order rings. 3) balance. 4) diamond hone. 5) relocate a few bolt holes in the oil pan rail for custom oil pan. 6) drill / tap for AN fitting on side of block for external oil pickup line (dual line with Bulltear adapter). I'll perform final assembly and I use a blueprint sheet for every hole in the engine.
Lastly, final epoxy work is starting today on the grafted intake.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SKeown on 06/14/16 at 02:10:23


"I think you would be extremely surprised on the accuracy of the valve seats, deck height, cam lobes, and crank angles mentioned."

Whenever I've bothered to confirm these things in the past I was as shocked as you were to discover how much flex and compression the valvetrain experiences when subjected to heavy spring loads. Hopefully in you're case everything is as exact as expected.

SKeown

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 06/14/16 at 04:44:43

The statement I made concerned machined parts.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 07/01/16 at 06:46:24


SuperStockAMX wrote:
I think you would be extremely surprised on the accuracy of the valve seats, deck height, cam lobes, and crank angles mentioned.
However, I am not confident in having .075"-.080" p/v on the exhaust. Factors to consider is I am not imune to being over zealous in the burnout, and I run a clutch Jerico which I shift clutch less. That will flare up the RPM between gears. Chain stretch will also retard cam timing which also lessens the clearance. So after consulting my cam grinder and Adkins, the consensus is advance the cam 3-4 degrees. Will probably have nearly equal intake & exhaust clearance. This will be adjusted next time I have pistons made.
Writing this on my way home from my midnight run to LA CA to drop off block and reciprocating assembly.
He says 3-week turnaround. 1) re-coat piston skirts. 2) order rings. 3) balance. 4) diamond hone. 5) relocate a few bolt holes in the oil pan rail for custom oil pan. 6) drill / tap for AN fitting on side of block for external oil pickup line (dual line with Bulltear adapter). I'll perform final assembly and I use a blueprint sheet for every hole in the engine.
Lastly, final epoxy work is starting today on the grafted intake.


Holy crap! I posted this June 13th and here it is June 30 and the work is done! 17 days. I'm in shock...don't know if my mind can comprehend somebody getting work done not just on time but ahead of time!

Dropped by the intake manifold last weekend and all epoxy is in and ready for final blending as needed.

Got a very good deal from Total Seal on their 110v ring grinder so I bought one. Has a dial indicator to show exactly how much you have taken off. Anybody need my old hand grinder?

A.H. Adkins took my OEM / NOS timing cover and gears and performed his magic on all the parts. Thanks Adkins!

Next week, after the 4th I'll head over to the machine shop and pick up my parts. Finally in the new house and I had the 4 car garage coated with polyurethane or whatever t's called (not epoxy) two days after getting the keys. Movers were here all day Tuesday this week and now of course we're living in boxes. Party on Sunday here with friends & family as our community has fireworks on the 3rd of July. The 4th will be dedicated to moving my old garage to the new garage. I was going to build the engine at the old house and get the AMX running at the old house but the more I look at it, I like my new garage much better and it will be cleaner and better organized. So change of plans and I can't wait to get started. On top of that, I'm remodeling four homes (plus the move into the new home). I don't know how I'll do it but have to say I'm finally starting to get excited about everything.

I hear the fastest car in SS / H (Dave Barcelona) has a new bullet with an extra 30 HP. Yikes! And on top of that, Rob Youngblood @ Advanced Clutches has a new clutch with coated surfaces that Dave will be getting. That is one bad A** 327! I think he will be seeing some 9.50's with that '66 Chevy II. Not only is that Chevy II fast, it belongs on the podium at World of Wheels. It is absolutely beautiful! I don't see 9.50's happening with my AMX; especially with stock type suspension and 9" slicks. But my goal all along has been to see a 9.70. Maybe I can hang on his rear quarter...after I get it running of course.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Class Guy on 07/02/16 at 12:03:11

What, no progress pictures of the intake?

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 07/03/16 at 04:32:36

Just left a swim meet and had my 3 girls with me being 14 year olds and hungry after their meet...You figure that out!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by idrambler on 07/03/16 at 17:27:20

Hey...Jeff....

Glad to see you are making progress on the X.....looking forward to you being back out at the track kicking butt again.....

A local friend bought a clutch from Rob for his  SC/Rambler.....


Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 07/30/16 at 18:47:38

Sitting here at another swim meet. Two.of my four kids made state which is where I'm at. One made it to Zone Age Group finals in Utah 3 weeks from now. Still unpacking in spare time...
Machine shop in CA did a great job with getting the cylinder bores round again using Diamond Hone. I'm not sure if this is an accurate way of saying it but it's like CNC honing.
Unfortunately, my pistons which have about 30 runs on them offer .0095" clearance. So new pistons or..
Consulted with Total Seal Rings and they HIGHLY suggested Line2Line coatings for the skirts. Google it. Basically it's an Abbradable Powder Coating which is applie to a near interference fit. You scuff the coating until you can push the piston through with both thumbs then assemble engine. Breaking in the engine wears the coating "self clearancing" and then the wear stops. Very good info on their web site so check it out.
Still not sold I contacted Diamond as that's the Pistons I have. Much to my surprise they immediately told me to call Line2Line. Or buy $1200 Pistons (gulp)!
Lastly, I was talking to a friend whom is an aircraft mechanic. He new all about APC as its used on turbine engines. He had training at General Dynamics and told me APC was the difference in one engine making 17,000 # of thrust and another making 22,000 # with APC. At that point I was completely sold.
Sent Pistons off this week. Looking at 10 day turnaround and $300 on 10 Pistons.
Once back I can start assembly.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 12/07/16 at 04:20:04

Man, this is a lot longer build than I thought it would be. Picked up the Victor 383 / AMC from porter the other day. He needs it milled to my deck height. Once I have it milled, he will make final blend at the end of the runners to my cylinder heads (a considerable amount will be milled). He will ad texture to the top 2/3rds and then it will be race ready. Maybe not show ready, but race ready.
For those that need catching up, porter had to cut out the runner divider walls, about the front (from plenum) down as the twist was all wrong. He then took index card in about 1/4” sections and templates the index card to the runner shape & height. Then transferred the index card to sheet aluminum, cut and welded each section inside each runner pairing. Once welded up, grind as necessary, epoxy fill as necessary, POR15 as necessary. All told, he had 120 hours in labor. Haven’t received a bill yet but it won’t be anywhere close to his time involved. Call it a labor of love because once he was in, he was all in. A tough project but great pride by a 70+ year old dude that knows his stuff.
Ok..here’s the photo show:
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3792_zpsmabj2uco.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3792_zpsmabj2uco.jpg.html)
Height difference is 7/8”. The AMC base is deeper than the Torker base so I tried to match heights by shimming the Torker so the upper side flanges matched.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3793_zpsu5yqwlw4.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3793_zpsu5yqwlw4.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3795_zpsj3n91afu.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3795_zpsj3n91afu.jpg.html)
Comparrison. Note we had to cut the valley floor in order to get a 360* weld around the runners to the AMC base.  
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3796_zpsnleh82a4.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3796_zpsnleh82a4.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3797_zps2qplhp2k.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3797_zps2qplhp2k.jpg.html)

Inside the #2/4 runner of the Victor.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3799_zpss009znvh.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3799_zpss009znvh.jpg.html)

Inside the same runner of the Torker. Camera is held as close as possible as view down Torker.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3800_zpsoptreisn.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3800_zpsoptreisn.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3801_zpsirqr8ixc.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3801_zpsirqr8ixc.jpg.html)
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3802_zpsypezb9mn.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3802_zpsypezb9mn.jpg.html)

Comparing runner angle & length
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3804_zpsxlcvbrpc.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3804_zpsxlcvbrpc.jpg.html)
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3805_zpsd5uh6pm1.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3805_zpsd5uh6pm1.jpg.html)

Plenum Victor
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3806_zpsgco1w9o5.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3806_zpsgco1w9o5.jpg.html)

Plenum Torker
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3807_zpswuxrtvaq.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3807_zpswuxrtvaq.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3808_zpsamnnrxlf.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3808_zpsamnnrxlf.jpg.html)
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3810_zpsl9supcfn.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3810_zpsl9supcfn.jpg.html)
Same camera angle
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3809_zpst4pjmyy7.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3809_zpst4pjmyy7.jpg.html)

Good reference point as the thermostat housing & oil filler tube flange are same height on both intakes. Using a aluminum plate and measuring from carb mounting pad. Note the Torker carb flange is angled down at the front of the carb flange while the Victor is flat. So this is not entirely accurate. Best I could do as I only had two hands available!
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3817_zpsmwqahyaj.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3817_zpsmwqahyaj.jpg.html)
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3816_zpsjy0so4ay.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3816_zpsjy0so4ay.jpg.html)

See next page....

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 12/07/16 at 04:27:48

Victor plenum depth 3 5/16” at center of plenum
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3818_zpsxkqmh4eo.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3818_zpsxkqmh4eo.jpg.html)
Increases to 3 9/16” at outboard edges of plenum
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3820_zps12k10zrj.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3820_zps12k10zrj.jpg.html)

Torker plenum depth 3 1/2” and flat
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3821_zpswmhesvbh.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3821_zpswmhesvbh.jpg.html)



Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 12/07/16 at 04:37:14

Later this week I will post pictures of the two intakes I had built by Jim Schmitz using an Edelbrock AMC Victor EFI converted to use a 4150 carb mounting pad. It is on a UPS truck right now. Much cleaner conversion and smaller runners with high velocity already proven with dyno results on Jims street AMX. One of the two will be shipped to A.H. Adkins for dyno testing on Garret Ghezzi’s NHRA / IHRA Super Stock 290 AMX no later than January 2017. Additionally, Jim will be shipping a ported version of the same to Adkins in 7-10 days for the same dyno test session.

Unfortunately I will not be dyno'ing my engine this go around. I am starting final assembly of my 390 this week. There is a new Arizona Stock / Super Stock Association with their first race 01/28/2017 and I have every intention of being in this race.

I will race first with the Torker. Then the Victor 383. Then un-ported Victor EFI conversion non-ported. Victor EFI will be ported based on comparison of the first three intakes.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 12/07/16 at 19:25:56

FYI - Torker ran 10.02 best ET @ best MPH of 133. That’s the bar.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by amx2334 on 12/07/16 at 22:11:55

I noticed that the AMC (pro flo 2)EFI application is not listed in the 2017 Edelbrock catalog. That EFI manifold may no longer be available. However, The new pro flo 3 systems all use a 4150 throttle body. Is it possible that the AMC version will be released later? That would mean a 4150 base manifold may be readily available someday?

I have an efi manifold. It will be interesting to see how these compare. Good luck and keep posting results.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 12/07/16 at 22:39:23


amx2334 wrote:
I noticed that the AMC (pro flo 2)EFI application is not listed in the 2017 Edelbrock catalog. That EFI manifold may no longer be available. However, The new pro flo 3 systems all use a 4150 throttle body. Is it possible that the AMC version will be released later? That would mean a 4150 base manifold may be readily available someday?

I have an efi manifold. It will be interesting to see how these compare. Good luck and keep posting results.



No idea. It would seem the reasonable thing to do.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 12/07/16 at 22:51:50

New EFI / 4150 conversions arrived today! Interesting comparison between the Victor 383 and Victor AMC EFI conversion. Regarding the external appearance, especially runner length and angles, both look\ very similar externally. Runners are as cast in the EFI and considerably smaller but that may be a good thing. Testing will tell.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3861_zpsv7gxk5u3.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3861_zpsv7gxk5u3.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3860_zpshoyj85a6.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3860_zpshoyj85a6.jpg.html)

Same port sizes
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3863_zpsthsmdky6.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3863_zpsthsmdky6.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3862_zpshiadntro.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3862_zpshiadntro.jpg.html)

EFI view #6/8 runner
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3864_zpsbhqx6hhz.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3864_zpsbhqx6hhz.jpg.html)

Victor 383 #6/8 runner
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3865_zpsa6fwx6of.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3865_zpsa6fwx6of.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by TUBBED_X on 12/08/16 at 17:21:05

Jeff, Just curious,
wouldnt it have been easier to start with a HRL intake?
it has a Huge plenum area to start with...
that is Alot of work the man put into that intake, Hope it helps a bunch for ya!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 12/08/16 at 18:41:52

I once ran an Indy intake which is pretty much a copy of the HLR intake. It was a dog. My engine builder at the time told me it was but I said “make it work”. After 2-3 pounds of filler, the plenum was still WAY to large for my 390. I talked about the issue with Adkins and I sent him a Torker. He made it into an air-gap and removed the bumps for the inner bolts. No other work. Placed Torker on 390 and instantly knocked of close to two-tenths. and the front tire rise went from a few inches off the ground (very lazy acceleration curve) to 1-2 foot wheel stands in 1st gear and sometimes sizable in 2nd gear (and a few all the way through 3rd) and you better be ready to shift up NOW! This was my 1st SS engine which had 300 CFM -291 heads & high .700” lift roller cam.
Conclusion was HLR or Indy is probably fine for large CID, nitrous, maybe really high RPM. Or any combo of the 3. Volume & flow in an intake manifold looks good on a graph. Sometimes that equates to faster acceleration. Sometimes not.
This Victor 383, if I’m right, should fill the void in performance between the Torker (a 48 year old design) and the Indy. And obviously, it appears the AMC Victor EFI may be a much better choice for simplicity’s sake. Of course I also spent several years bending the ear of those at Edelbrock to make a 4150 Victor AMC. They don’t seem to see the market is there; to which I disagree.
Now if I had to do it over again, I would cut the Victor 383 flanges off then cut the plenum North/south & east/west and weld it all together with a 4150 spacer and re-work the plenum. I thought I could do this without slicing across any runners but the curvature of the runners...threw me a curve!  :-/ Never was any good with math...

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by TUBBED_X on 12/12/16 at 18:04:42

;D
[smiley=thumbsup.gif]
was just curius....
Yes sir, one of the hardest things for me to learn was shifting with the front wheels in the air!-)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 01/19/17 at 06:39:22

Moving right along with my snail’s pace.... ;D
At least the intake sits on the engine now! There was not a flat piece of aluminum on this when I gave it to the shop! Twisted all over the place. Not even the carb flange would take a straight edge.  :’(  Bolt holes don’t even line up...well they kinda do but 3/4 of them are off .025” to .050” I’m guessing. But the runners line up to the head ports beautifully!
I’t all straight now. Just need one more cut to compensate for the SCE .0625” intake gaskets. Then I can take it back to the porter and he can finish it up. Taking the family skiing and then I’ll get on a fast track towards assembling the engine.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/fullsizeoutput_7639_zpsrk12lsdz.jpeg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/fullsizeoutput_7639_zpsrk12lsdz.jpeg.html)
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/fullsizeoutput_763a_zpsqxljzrkm.jpeg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/fullsizeoutput_763a_zpsqxljzrkm.jpeg.html)
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_4124_zpsmyywter5.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_4124_zpsmyywter5.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 02/07/17 at 07:26:51

Finally started assembling my new SS 390 engine this weekend.
Got the crank in for the final install. Went to file fit all the rings. Bore is 4.236”. Top rings came out of the package with .019” gap and I filed to .024”. Then I went for the #2 rings and out of the package was .045”! Same with oil rings! There...now I had to wait for Monday to exchange the #2 & oil rings which I assume were mixed with another set. Luckily Total Seal is only about 8 miles from my home and that was fixed 1st thing Monday morning. Now the good news...as I planned on installing the pistons Sunday afternoon and work in the shop all day / night to get this done...I ended up watching the Super Bowl and that was worth the delay on the engine!
I had a lot of real estate work to do today and tonight I finished up file fitting the remaining rings. Tomorrow I can install pistons.

Crankshaft work was done by ShafTech in MI and EVERY spec was 100% right on. I ended up with .0028” on all main journals, .0018” on every rod journal and .005” on crank end-play.

Thought I might share some fancy tools I bought. Yea, I know, not cheap. But I have to say it was almost a pleasure to file fit rings instead of using the wobbly hand grinder trying to get a parallel cut. All 8 sets of rings have the exact dimension with .024” top, .030” 2nd and .020” oil.

I used the typical 1” down ring squaring tool and this new Goodson tool which I used below the 1” ring squaring tool; the ring is sandwiched in between tools and the the top tool is removed to measure the ring gap. https://www.goodson.com/ring-squaring-tools/

I got a “deal” on this Total Seal ring grinder. I don’t care if you build one engine every two years...you have to get this! Every gap is exactly what I want it. Both ends of the ring are exactly square to one another. Took hardly anytime to do the job. The wheel on the right is a rubber wheel for dressing the burrs once you are done filing. http://www.totalseal.com/tools-power-ring-filer.html

My home-made grafted Mopar 383 Victor to AMC Performer Air-Gap base is almost done. Sides were finished milled last week and now porter can finish his internal work. Will start with old Torker intake first so I can compare to my work.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 02/26/17 at 06:14:51

Manifold is done except for powder coating.

Here are #8 cylinder head flow #’s with and without the intake manifold attached. This is a -993 head with 2.02” intake valves ported to NHRA specs on a 175cc intake runner. Sorry, I could not figure out how to post an cell spreadsheet.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_4251_zpsdwgq8ws8.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_4251_zpsdwgq8ws8.jpg.html)

I did calculate the percentage of CFM loss. Starting backwards from .900” lift (cam is custom solid roller @ .850” gross lift on a .500” lobe lift, 55mm by Redline Racing Cams)
-1.31%
-2.15%
-2.65%
-3.14%
-3.54%
-7.6%
-6.8%
-4.9%
-6.9%
-3.6%
-1.98%
-10.66%
-0%
Average of the 13 data points: -4.25%

Notice textured surfaces:
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_4237_zpsx63ratoz.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_4237_zpsx63ratoz.jpg.html)

I will load up remaining pictures later as PhotoBucket is not responding...

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Class Guy on 02/26/17 at 13:00:35

Excellent!!!  Do you know how he did the texturing?

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 02/27/17 at 04:10:35

No I don’t. Looks labor intensive!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 02/27/17 at 04:20:15

More pics:
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_4244_zps8qurbejf.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_4244_zps8qurbejf.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_4243_zpsi5vuu8bu.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_4243_zpsi5vuu8bu.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_4246_zpsdpvnrwzw.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_4246_zpsdpvnrwzw.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_4249_zpsbcksym4d.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_4249_zpsbcksym4d.jpg.html)

Torker vs. Grafted:
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_3801_zpsirqr8ixc.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_3801_zpsirqr8ixc.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 02/27/17 at 05:30:01

Now just need to purity it up a little. Will get a heat rejecting coating on it.

A little wrap up here...at least until I get the grafted intake on my engine and down the track.
Torker will be tried first as I have used it before on previous SS 390 engine.
This new engine has a much better oil pan with kickout and a teflon crank scrapper. K-frame was modified for additional pan clearance.
Slight changes in cylinder heads (new valves,valve angles and reduced diameter valve springs and retainers), and going from a Comp Cams solid roller to Redline Racing Cams which were very successful in my Stock Eliminator venture.
Redline Racing Cam has .500” lobe lift, .850” gross lift & wide LSA.
Comp Cam had wide LSA, just not as wide as the new cam, .445 lobe lift, .773 “ gross lift.
Redline Racing Cam has larger duration numbers.
That’s as vague as I can get :)
Old engine went 10.002 @ barely over 133 MPH. This was on 9” slicks and Stock Eliminator legal with (only) bolt-on traction devices (Cal-Track & AFCO DA shocks).
Have added a ARB since.

I have WAY to much into this intake! A lot of labor rates were extended into milling operations. First in whittling down the two intake manifolds. Second in straightening out what becomes of a welded cast intake manifold which will twist and bow like nothing I have ever dealt with. On top of that, I run a seriously decked block and that adds to the amount that needs to be planned off the intake slabs.
How much was the cost of building new runner divider walls? Porting? Texture? Flow? Would you believe he felt bad about charging me $200? He felt it took way to long and wanted to work with me on this. He’s 72 years old and has severe bronchial issues as a result of a lifetime of porting heads and intakes (and smoking). I had to literally force $600 on him as I could not look at that work and give him the $200 he insisted on. Hell, $600 was cheap.
Something about Elmo Hodge. He was born in 1946. He’s a black man. Why do I mention this? Because he went through GM without college and retired at the GM Proving Grounds on a level that only senior engineers are today. He took advantage of every course GM offered for training and promotion but still lacked the degree go his cohorts. I forgot his exact status with GM but he was a “go-to” guy for any project (including developmental projects) GM dreamed of; at least on the mechanical side of things. He retired when GM closed the Proving Grounds and now is involved in his life-long dream of cylinder head and intake development working out of his 2-car garage. He has a Comp Eliminator Ken Keir Bantam Roadster with his own built SB2 which is “90 days from completion” for at least 10 years now. But family and customers always get in the way.
I first met Elmo when I started bracket racing my street / strip ’71 Challenger at Phoenix Raceway Park in 1978 or 1979. He showed up with his ’69 Camaro which was a Modified Production SBC car with his home-built 302 and A883 adapted trans that I think he made into a 5-speed? I may need to confirm that but it was a helluva car and when I brought the car to the attention of several of the “elders” at the track, I was shocked at the expletives used against him and his beautiful car. Seems it had to way 3600#’s as I recall and when it ran 10.40’s, I made sure the elders took notice. It was impressive and I kept in touch with him over the years.
When I built a Super Street ’70 AMX with a 451” BBM, Elmo did the cast iron heads, TM-6 intake and spec’ed the Ultradyne .625” solid roller. This was maybe 1990-1992? 2850# AMX and it would go 9.90’s at 133 MPH off the stop or 10.90’s @ 129-131 MPH on the stop. This with a 4150 carb. At the time, I had the third fastest S/ST MPH in Arizona with 100 less cubes, no Dominator carb and factory production heads against the top two that had BBC with aftermarket heads. The guy just knows his stuff and I’m honored to have his talents and many others on my side.
Now of course that assumes this intake will work...

Tied up with so much now that trying to get time on the engine is difficult. Am now pulling the pistons and rods out as I go to sleep every night worried the #2 rings are to tight. I dropped in at Total Seal and the rings are .0005” to thick and the lands are .0005” to tight. At least that confirms what I could’t measure and now I will now hand sand the rings to the needed spec on plate glass.

Son just made Eagle Scout this month, thought we were loosing my Mother-in-Law, and wife wants the Eagle Scout ceremony at our home before her mom misses it and it’s 03/17/2017 on the calendar plus demands with work, all 4 kids are in regional and state championships with swim this month.... So that is taking time away from race car. Will get it done ASAP x 3!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Red Devil on 03/01/17 at 22:54:51

That's some pretty impressive work!  Hope it gets you some improvement ... but if not, it's been a good exercise and thanks for posting details along the way  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 04/15/17 at 05:56:56

Some good news on development work. Taking one of my Victor EFI Intake Manifold with NO MODIFICATIONS other than the 4150 conversion, on a NHRA Super Stock 290 which is very much cutting edge (and fastest in class), against the heavily modified Torker Intake Manifold, The EFI produced an astounding +10 HP @ peak, and an average of 8 HP from 5800-8000 RPM! (Might have been 5300 RPM). There was a loss of 3# torque peak BUT a +5.5# torque average increase!
This was on Barry Allens dyno in West Virginia.
This was AS CAST RUNNERS & PLENUM.
Adkins agreed his modified Torker was a minimum of 15 HP improved over a stock / as cast Torker.

At that point, I told Adkins to port the EFI for my Super Stock 390 application.

Ran into small issue on rings...need to slightly lap #2 on all 8. Came up with this from help with a friend today. Using 5” x 1/2” bar stock, chucked it up into his lathe and now have this neat little piston ring device for lapping onto wet 600 sand paper on glass. Took about 20 passes on it and ring fits perfect. I will do the other 7 tomorrow and finish assembly of the short block tomorrow.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_4488_zpslp1yxbpw.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_4488_zpslp1yxbpw.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_4489_zpsfuewh7lb.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_4489_zpsfuewh7lb.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 04/18/17 at 05:55:39

oops...edit above. That’s 5” “round stock” not “bar stock”.

Last Saturday “piston ported” the intake valve reliefs of the pistons. Took Sunday off for Easter. Tonight I fitted the wrist pins to the pistons and to the rods. De-burred and chamfered the rods. Tomorrow I will lap the rings.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/18/17 at 01:48:15

Haven’t updated for awhile. Ran into problems, of all things, installing pistons in the block. Here’s what I wrote on another forum:

OMG...whatt a pain in the ass these trick skinny rings that are back cut to install! I pretty much figured out the problems but couldn’t figure a solution.
The issues: .043/.043/3mm ring pack.
Due to being back cut to .135” and .140” radial, in a stationary position installed on the pistons, the rings kind of flop around in the breeze. The trick is to get them squeezed into the lands (duh) and down into the cylinders without a ring popping out along the way. I have an odd bore of 4.236” so no standard ring compressors. So I was using the adjustable Total Seal with 5* taper. Just wasn’t working. I could get the oil rings in the bore but always fighting the #2 scraper ring. That ring will twist so easy and then will stick in the groove. I have gotten pretty good at re-setting that ring as it is very soft metal.
Never an issue with #1 ring as it is tool steel.
Upon consulting with a professional engine builder, was told I needed the K&D ring compressor; the one with the pliers and assorted sizes of rings in a kit. So I bought that. The problem there is you have to squeeze the heck out of the pliers, keep the compressor flush with the block and WHAM! with your hammer handle to quickly discharge the piston from compressor to cylinder. Should be easy...
I installed 3 pistons and they went in like they’re supposed to. The other FIVE!!!! aargh....the bottom oil rail popped out and got mangled all to crap. If anybody’s laughing their are off...that’s ok.
So I slink back to Keith at Total Seal. I tell him “look, last engines I built had the trick 1/16” rings and I never built an engine with back cut rings much less skinny .043” rings” I explain I have the problems figured out but am at a loss on the solution and yes, I realize racers and builders all over the world do not have this problem!!!
He actually agreed with me; the thin rings can be a bear, and the back cut ads more difficulty to the issue. I am glad I’m not alone! So he offers me this advice...”we need to build you a tapered ring compressor to your 4.236” bore and you CAN NOT use a 5* taper, it has to be 2* taper".
"Whoa! That’s the solution I say....” Kinda wish I would have heard this many moons ago but they had it to me the next day (last Tuesday). So I have the part I think I need and I should be able to use my thumbs and not a hammer; like I’ve always done.

With a 5* taper, it allows the ring to twist on the way down. Especially the #2 ring as it’s super sensitive and it hangs out of the land quite a bit.
Also, the top of the pistons are .050” smaller OD than the skirt measurement point. So think about the piston skirt sliding through that tool and then the clearances between the piston and the tool increase!
It’s because of this I need a 2* taper. Make sense?

Finally! Nothing like having the right tool for the job! Piece of cake to install pistons into the block. There was a chip on one of the #2 rings that I didn’t catch so I’ll get another in the morning and have the last piston installed before noon.
Next: Fit crank scraper.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Class Guy on 05/18/17 at 12:17:23

The 2 degree installer is taller than the 5 degree?

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/18/17 at 14:32:33

Same height just better entry angle.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/29/17 at 01:27:33

Installed and degreed the cam today. Installed straight up, well almost. It’s retarded .5 degree. .850” / .825” gross. .026” / .026” lash. .500” lobe lift w/ 55mm journals.

Short-block...done!
Heads & Intake manifold(s)....done!
Oil pan...done!

Ishihara - Johnson teflon crank scrapper...wrong part sent to me. They sent 2-bolt main instead of 4-bolt main. Waiting for replacement so I can custom fit and then wrap up the bottom end.

Off on vacation next. 30th Wedding Anniversary. Then back home and hopefully wrap this engine all up. Only parts I need to order are Manton Pushrods once I get the valve-train sorted for pushrod final length.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 05/29/17 at 23:08:08

Could not use the DigiCam for degree’ing in the cam as the crank post adapter keyway broach was not deep enough. So went back to the old way. Altronics (maker of DigiCam), will fix the issue and I’ll double check my work. It’s a sweet way to degree a cam. I used it to find TDC, just to see how it worked as I found a woodruff key to use. But the woodruff key I found was not long enough to accommodate with the crank gear and the DigiCam adapter.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm187/SuperStockAMX/IMG_4885_zps4nv4ngx0.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SuperStockAMX/media/IMG_4885_zps4nv4ngx0.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 08/27/17 at 20:22:51

Been awhile since I posted. Took two-week vacation to Florida which included a cruise with the wife and 4 teenage kids. Somebody sent me a PM asking about progress so let me see what I can do to wrap it up to this point....hopefully will have engine installed this week??? Not that I’ve been able to keep this project on schedule in the past so let’s just see what I can do.

Last post I see I degreed the cam and had it @ 112* ICL on a 112* LSA; to which almost nobody liked!

Then, after decreeing in the cam, using a pair of no-taper 3/8” pushrods I had in inventory, I installed the new Manton Stage IV super-duper 7/16” to 3/8” single taper pushrods. Knowing I had adequate P/V clearance (using clay), I installed the Manton’s on the #1 cylinder and rotated the engine and “SNAP” the #1 intake lifter broke at the tower (whatever that’s called; supports the link). No, I did not check the pushrod to button head screw for the link at all points. I did check the clearance at the base circle and +.100” lift and called it “good”. Turns out there are two versions of the T&D shaft rocker system. I have V1. V1 has the proper geometry for the strongest rocker arm. The downside is the clearance on the pushrod gets tighter as the lifter goes up. I have a .500” lobe so that is a lot of lift.
FYI - V2 has this issue corrected at the expense of a weaker rocker arm. Thanks to Adkins for that education! V1 is best for my application. So...I spent $195 for a new pair of Crower lifters. Then, as advised by Adkins, I ground down every button head screw for clearance. In the end, there was not enough clearance on the pushrods to button head screw at upper lifts. Yea...there went $520 down the drain for the pushrods! Ordered a set of Manton Stage IV 3/8” .148” wall pushrods and they pretty much didn’t want me to go to Trend (because I’m not made of money!) so I got the next set for about $225.

Got the new 3/8” pushrods in a few days. and installed a pair on #1. Rotated the engine by hand, plenty of clearance. Maybe not plenty, but enough. Like .005” at the tightest point. See why you would not want a flex-pushrod? Next, I installed the remaining pushrods and rocker assemblies. Rotated the engine for the 1st time with all race springs, rockers, etc. I then went to adjust valves. Something is wrong. At TDC #1 the intake is always open and the exhaust isn’t moving. Rotate the engine some more, same deal. I look at the cam gear and the slot is here and the keyway there! Yes, after going to NAPA Auto for keys, I find these are generic hardware store items like you would use on the shop fan. And as with the pushrod clearance, dodged another bullet. Imagine if these two issues would have occurred with the starter engaged? Found McMaster Tool sells heat treated keys with 122,000# tensile strength and bought what I needed. Installed and work / fit perfect. Ended up advancing the cam to 109* ICL.

Spent at least 3-weeks waiting on the custom teflon crank-scraper as Kevin Johnson had serious illness. Finally got both sides and spent a good 1/2 day installing and trimming to proper clearance. The Passenger side is a 3-piece assembly with the teflon sandwiched in the middle and secured with a bunch of little studs (welded to the bottom or block side piece). Timing cover is now installed.

Yesterday I spent most of the day grinding on my custom oil pan which has a passenger side kick-out that extends well beyond the block’s pan rail. Three of the mounting holes in the pan go through tubes and the block has been drilled for unique bolt pattern of a the pan. Just a couple but it is outside the box from typical AMC. I had to grind clearance for the scrapper nuts. That was a real pain. And then...after spending the day clearanc'ing, I find I can clear the nuts but the pan still won’t drop down all the way to the block due to the oil pan rail (passenger side) will not clear the top section of the scraper. The pan flange on passenger side is wider than stock; not only due to the kick-out but it goes to the inside (inboard of the block pan rail) more than OEM. If I wanted it nice & pretty, I would need \a Bridgeport to clearance the oil pan flange. Or down and dirty maybe just a saber saw. I don’t know. What I believe is the scrapper is probably worth around 5 HP and the oil pan maybe 20 HP. So last night, before calling it a day, off came the scraper.

At this point, oil pan will be on tomorrow. Then all that is needed is the water pump, engine plate, crank-trigger, install Master Lube oil reservoir and Clear View Filter to engine plate and build oil lines. Intake manifold and all that other stuff is done.

On the intake manifold, I don’t know if I mentioned it but I decided to start with the Victor 383 as the Victor EFI is not back from Adkins (getting ported) and when you put any of these two home brewed intakes next to the Torker, I just know the Torker is a waste of time. Will I try it someday? Yes, as I really want to know. But I am actually trying to make a race September 16. At the rate I work on the car, doubtful; but possible. It will require me getting the engine / trans in the car this week and finding a back road where I can load the engine enough to seat in the clutch and the piston skirt coating; which is a must on the engine before WOT usage. I did coat the intake with a titanium looking color which is a heat dispersing coating. I liked it so much I also did the same on the sheet metal valve covers and oil pan. Next page.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 08/27/17 at 20:34:39

Block and heads were previously coated in same color. Timing cover is NOS OEM and I left it natural.
I installed this anti-vibration carb isolator http://www.lyonsperformance.com/4150-carb-vibration-isolator-p-1346.html
I have also installed the 780 VS Holley (QFT copy) in order to break in the engine as it is a more reliable carb than the Autolite in terms of needle & seat issues. The Holley is IHRA legal and the race I’m trying to make recognizes both NHRA & IHRA specs as it is a local Stock/Super Stock Association. I only wish the QFT carb was not that bling finish but that was the NHRA required part when that was a legal replacement part (no longer valid).

Here is the new filter http://www.clearviewfiltration.com I got the 4” black unit that accepts a screw on filter. Yes, with the Master Lube system and this Clear View Filter you can say I am paranoid about the engines oiling and internal condition!

I need to figure out the easiest way to load pics from my computer to this board thanks to that Photobucket disaster.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 09/02/17 at 04:58:33

Oil pan installed and I was able to use bullet nosed studs on all locations but one. Had to use a regular bolt there.
Starter installed. I can install my headers without removing the starter.

Mocked up the passenger header. it clears the bulk-head fittings for the external pick-up by about .050”!

Since the custom oil pan (which I bought used and had to modify as it was set-up for drivers side starter and drivers side external pick-up) covers the area where the second external oil line is connected (where the machine tooling is referenced at the factory), I am relegated to only one external line. Will fix that on the next engine block and next oil pan which I will design. But for now, this is going to have to work.
On top of that, I am forced into running a -12 line out of the sump and it will have to reduce to a -10 lone as it enters the Bulltear 534 adapter. Why? Because a -12 fitting will not clear the corner of the oil pan; the corner that also covers that blank hole used for machining.
In the morning going over to the hose store and see what is available for an inline reducer from -12 to -10.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 09/06/17 at 06:20:20

Lets see if I can upload a picture from Imgur:


http://i.imgur.com/HRNZtvlm.jpg (https://imgur.com/HRNZtvl)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 09/06/17 at 06:53:04

Ok....got that figured out! Here are some pictures to update and make up for lost pictures from PhotoBucketofCrap

This is the anti-vibration carb spacer:
http://i.imgur.com/bjMJibEm.jpg (https://imgur.com/bjMJibE)

Mounts like this:
http://i.imgur.com/EtapdSum.jpg (https://imgur.com/EtapdSu)

With IHRA approved Holley:
http://i.imgur.com/wA1Yn1Cm.jpg (https://imgur.com/wA1Yn1C)

http://i.imgur.com/jlawwTSm.jpg (https://imgur.com/jlawwTS)

Victor 383 installed on engine:
http://i.imgur.com/zE4F2jEm.jpg (https://imgur.com/zE4F2jE)

New oil pan. Bought used from Bobby Shahan in AR:
Driver’s side. Sight glass for oil level. 7 quarts at top of glass.
http://i.imgur.com/DZ299I3m.jpg (https://imgur.com/DZ299I3)

Passenger side with kick-out:
http://i.imgur.com/5oJM0ZIm.jpg (https://imgur.com/5oJM0ZI)

Notice the kick-out covers the right front corner of the block along the pan rail (of the block). Because of this, I can not run the second external oil line from the swinging pickup. Bad planning on my part. However, I did talk to somebody the other day who has run his AMC’s both ways and he thinks there is cavitation issues with running dual lines. After a long talk with him, makes sense.

http://i.imgur.com/JD9pSA4m.jpg (https://imgur.com/JD9pSA4)

And this is my oil line routing out of the sump. I used a -12 bulkhead connector at the sump, then a -12 45* to a -12 120*, followed by a -12 to a -10 reducer with the -10 line finishing the job to the Bulltear 534 adapter. Why did I go to a -10 line? Because the kick-out would not allow a -12 fitting to fit the oil pan kick-out.
http://i.imgur.com/5uu1nNlm.jpg (https://imgur.com/5uu1nNl)

And my new oil filter:
http://i.imgur.com/oAIWiFim.jpg (https://imgur.com/oAIWiFi)

Routing of the oil lines to the filter:
http://i.imgur.com/feShszjm.jpg (https://imgur.com/feShszj)

MasterLube on motor plate along with MSD coil. You would think I would have switched the coil with the tank but the 3qt tank would not fit the taper of the plate. Plus, the steering box is there below the plate on that end.
http://i.imgur.com/HRNZtvlm.jpg (https://imgur.com/HRNZtvl)

Ordered today; and hopefully the last part I’m in need of, a smaller diameter (6.25”) crank-trigger wheel as my previously used 8” wheel will not clear the Meizere water pump adapter plate due to the motor plate pushing everything forward. It will be here in two days. In the mean time, I’m ready to prime the engine while on the stand. I also need to fix or replace break lines before I drop the engine in.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 09/16/17 at 03:56:21

DONE! Finished off the engine today. Crank trigger is set up. Oil pressure was 60+ with drill (cheap gauge only goes to 60#. I think I broke it as it went past 60# and now it’s stuck at 10# just sitting there). Oil to all rockers. Found a card at the local pizza joint for a polisher here in town. Recent transplant from Illinois. Obviously I tried him out and WOW! Not sure how well the bling goes with my “industrial” look but I like it.
Will work on redo of brake lines (front to rear) tomorrow.
Dang! Missed the Arizona Stock SuperStock Race which is tomorrow. Oh well. I just pray this runs good! Will report on that SOON!

http://i.imgur.com/KIsuD1ml.jpg (https://imgur.com/KIsuD1m)

http://i.imgur.com/pONFEHPl.jpg (https://imgur.com/pONFEHP)

http://i.imgur.com/G1gmAa0l.jpg (https://imgur.com/G1gmAa0)

http://i.imgur.com/Zl6xf4fl.jpg (https://imgur.com/Zl6xf4f)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by AussieJav on 09/16/17 at 10:54:57

Looks fantastic! - if it goes as good as it looks will be awesome!

What crank trigger setup have you got? and which ATI balancer is that?


Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Class Guy on 09/16/17 at 12:30:48

The finished product looks fantastic!  You are a great example of stick-to-it-iveness for us all!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 09/16/17 at 16:46:42

I don’t know the p/n of the ATI balancer. I’ve had it since I started racing this car in 1998. It’s 6.65” diameter and uses SBC bolt pattern on the front. That’s a 6.25” MSD crank trigger wheel I just bought. Previously I had an 8” wheel but was not running a motor plate. Now I am and that .310” plate and the Meizeire water pump adapter stacked on top of the motor plate interfered with the crank trigger wheel. Needed to mill .140” off something and I was not happy with that. Called Adkins and he’s the one that told me I had the wrong wheel! Didn’t even realize 6.25” was an option. That took care of that. Of course then I had to slightly re-engineer the trigger mount due (built on the fuel pump cavity) to the smaller diameter of the wheel. I’ve got .060” clearance from wheel to trigger but am not entirely happy that the arc of the trigger adjustment is different than the arc of the wheel; i.e., if you retard the timing (down), it gets tighter from trigger to wheel. If you advance the timing (upwards adjustment), it gets way to wide. But in the end, I decided .060” was adequate and any timing adjustments are through my MSD Grid and laptop anyway so it shouldn’t matter. Previously I did not have the Grid so I would make adjustments by moving the trigger up or down on it’s bracket.

I’m not aware of any shelf item crank trigger system specifically for AMC.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 09/18/17 at 04:59:55

Couldn’t find time this weekend to do the brake lines but I did get the dog house all cleaned up. Amazing how a coat of VHT Chassis Black can help! Took a wire wheel to the crossmember, lower control arms, strut brackets and new motor plate mount then painted.
Trial fitted my new C & R Radiator I had made. That Spal Fan just barely clears the upper & lower radiator support and closing the hood gives a finger width of clearance. I went for cooling over weight this time.

http://i.imgur.com/Z9JIrMKm.jpg (https://imgur.com/Z9JIrMK)

http://i.imgur.com/6P11L6hm.jpg (https://imgur.com/6P11L6h)

I have plans for an NHRA 360 in the future. I will report on that NASCAR block in the future. Want to sonic the cylinder walls and deck. I will build it as a back-up spare short-block.
http://i.imgur.com/Pv0OLMzm.jpg (https://imgur.com/Pv0OLMz)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by AussieJav on 09/18/17 at 08:45:37


SuperStockAMX wrote:
I don’t know the p/n of the ATI balancer. I’ve had it since I started racing this car in 1998. It’s 6.65” diameter and uses SBC bolt pattern on the front. That’s a 6.25” MSD crank trigger wheel I just bought. Previously I had an 8” wheel but was not running a motor plate. Now I am and that .310” plate and the Meizeire water pump adapter stacked on top of the motor plate interfered with the crank trigger wheel. Needed to mill .140” off something and I was not happy with that. Called Adkins and he’s the one that told me I had the wrong wheel! Didn’t even realize 6.25” was an option. That took care of that. Of course then I had to slightly re-engineer the trigger mount due (built on the fuel pump cavity) to the smaller diameter of the wheel. I’ve got .060” clearance from wheel to trigger but am not entirely happy that the arc of the trigger adjustment is different than the arc of the wheel; i.e., if you retard the timing (down), it gets tighter from trigger to wheel. If you advance the timing (upwards adjustment), it gets way to wide. But in the end, I decided .060” was adequate and any timing adjustments are through my MSD Grid and laptop anyway so it shouldn’t matter. Previously I did not have the Grid so I would make adjustments by moving the trigger up or down on it’s bracket.

I’m not aware of any shelf item crank trigger system specifically for AMC.


OK thanks for the information!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 09/24/17 at 07:18:56

Brake lines done. Bleed in the morning. Go install cabinets in remodel next. Get back and install engine. That’s the plan anyway...

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 09/26/17 at 02:11:14

So nice when you go to bleed brakes that the bleeder screws have vice grip marks on them and are frozen in the caliper! Same shop that ruined the last engine did this. PB Blaster soaking right now and ordered new bleeder screws today.
Cabinet install went just as bad yesterday....ugh!
Did get the AMX pushed to the other bay and engine off the stand at least. Too tired tonight but will get flywheel, bell housing, trans on in the morning before I head out to work.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by 6T8AMXETC on 09/26/17 at 04:05:03

I know there is not a lot of action on this forum. Or even many replies to a great thread like this. But I am very much enjoying following along on your build for this engine! I can't wait to see the results you get at the track! Keep up the good work. I would definitely say you hold the AMC banner high!
Keep going strong
........Ty

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 09/26/17 at 06:21:50

Thanks...yea, sometimes I wonder if I’m talking to myself here. I appreciate that!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by AussieJav on 09/26/17 at 10:34:48

It seems to be the last of the survivors here....

The other forum seems to be going ok.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 09/26/17 at 12:31:20

This forum could survive and prosper just as any other forum but it requires a community that partakes and offers something from all. If everyone just sits and watches, it gets boring and no enthusiasm means it will die. I used to be part of that blue form but thanks to their management, was asked to leave. That was entirely due to one named Dan who came upon the AMC world trying to be the one with the ring that you must kiss to be accepted. And when myself and others questioned his abilities (a restoration shop owner), met considerable resistance and backstabbing. Dan was good at the politics of appeasing the admin(s) and the rule of law did not apply to him. That forum lost good people over one man (maybe two). I would not like to see this forum fail but I fear it’s days are numbered without more involvement from the community. That’s the only reason I started this thread.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by brownSpirit on 09/26/17 at 20:20:24

Keep it going, I can't wait to see how it all performs for you.  Andy

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by scott on 09/26/17 at 21:06:24

I'm following along & enjoying it! Keep posting!!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by DragRacingSpirit on 09/26/17 at 21:50:20

I'm still lurking around here.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 09/27/17 at 05:29:50

Slight progress today between work. Clutch and bell housing installed. This is a dual 7” disk from Advanced Clutches. Also shown from Advanced Clutches is their alignment tools for disks and trans to bell housing.
http://i.imgur.com/EaFHAwZm.jpg (https://imgur.com/EaFHAwZ)

I don’t know if I’ve ever shown this before, and if I did PB lost it. Here is how you properly space out the transmission from the bell housing when Lakewood stopped making the 8.25” deep bell housing they made for 40+ years and then started selling the 6” or so deep bell housings (along with the other brands). I have a Browell Bell Housing with wind and billet fork setup. The fork is secured in position inside the bell housing with him joint. So, unlike the OEM fork with clip, it doesn’t fall off when you “almost have the trans stabbed in”.
Back to the spacer...note the steel ring which registers the spacer to the bell housing and the recess that registers the spacer to the bearing retainer on the trans; registered on both ends for strength. I have quite a few passes on this spacer. There are no issues. If it wasn’t properly registered, you may have issues. Credit to Bud Yancer on that.
http://i.imgur.com/cutRYcem.jpg (https://imgur.com/cutRYce)
http://i.imgur.com/X9DRNgjm.jpg (https://imgur.com/X9DRNgj)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by chickenman on 09/27/17 at 21:43:13

I have really enjoyed reading and seeing your build progress. The time and patience shows with what you have built in the end. Real top notch stuff going on. I can not wait myself to see your first passes. Keep up the great work and thanks for including us in your build. Garry

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Airdrie AMX on 09/28/17 at 03:46:22

I too enjoy following this thread, you definately don't leave anything on the table when it comes to putting together a build like this one. Funny you show pics of the spacer, I gave up trying to find the old deep lakewood and bought the 6" one and machined my own spacer just like the one you pictured. That was about 8 or 9 years ago, the pics were on this forum in my thread but are gone now thanks to PB. Keep the progress coming!

Ivan

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 09/29/17 at 05:47:44

Yea, we did that spacer a long time ago! Glad it worked for you also. When I called Lakewood to express my displeasure over dropping a 40+ year old part and replacing it with one that was 2” or so shorter would require a new driveshaft, and possibly new headers and shifter, they said “that’s racing”. To tat I said, “well I guess somebody else will get my money!” I bought a Browell and it is also 6” deep but it saved about half the weight and has a window.

Last night I went to install my new in package ARP 3/8” x 16 bolts; bell housing to engine. Felt like the block was stripped in each of the holes which I knew was not possible. Kept fiddling around and finally measured the thread diameter and it was about .362”. This can’t be right from ARP. So I grab a allen bolt that was 3/8” x 16” off my bench, hardware store variety, and it measures .375” like it should. I put it in a spare block and it fits like it’s supposed to. It’s late and now I’m pissed because I wanted to use the ARP bolts which have the smaller hex head and now I have to deal with this. So after bending over that spare block I stand straight up, quickly, and bam! I smash my head in the corner of a wall cabinet! You know the scalp wounds...blood everywhere down my face, on my clean floor....So I grab a paper towel and cover my head and proceed to grab some 3/8” bolts and put them through the bell housing into the block and it works like it’s supposed to. Of course I’ll have to get the 3/8” bolts I want; maybe just some 1” or 3/4” long allen bolts. Got the trans mounted also. Ready to drop in the car! At 11:00 I went to the ER and got two staples in the scalp because it wouldn’t stop bleeding.

Triplets girls all got there learners permits yesterday. Thank God all passed; could you imagine if one failed?

Today I had a lot of work followed by a swim meet for all 4 kids. Another meet on Saturday. But one way or another, engine will be in this weekend. Geez, it’s just sitting there ready to get thrown in!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/01/17 at 07:02:09

Yea! Engine and trans are in. Put in as one unit which sure was nice. Bought Pivot “Articulating Engine Lift Plate” from Mac’s Tie Downs and best tool ever for engine install. http://www.macscustomtiedowns.com/category/PiVOT-and-Adapters
Had to raise the back of the car up high at first but no big deal.
Headers go on in the morning and tie up all the other loose ends.
http://i.imgur.com/eh8DkOGm.jpg (https://imgur.com/eh8DkOG)
Oh...looks like I have room for at least another 1” spacer under the carb. Will test one someday.
http://i.imgur.com/VOeCCDXm.jpg (https://imgur.com/VOeCCDX)
I’ll get a picture tomorrow after headers are on but what I liked on the underside was the bottom of the new engine crossmember, oil pan and bottom of the bell housing are all on an even plane.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/02/17 at 02:27:48

Underside showing headers, oil pan, etc.
http://i.imgur.com/CbRFRPOm.jpg (https://imgur.com/CbRFRPO)

Wrapped up a big chunk today; headers, header tethers, z-bar & clutch linkage, shifter, driveshaft & loop, shifter cover, plugs & plug wires, etc.
Bad thing about polished headers is they scratch when you put them in! Even with motor mounts gone, still not fun installing headers but these Monde Headers fit better than any shelf header or even the REF headers I had built previously. If Monde had my car now, he could build without the motor mounts for an even better install.

http://i.imgur.com/TacsI6Wm.jpg (https://imgur.com/TacsI6W)
http://i.imgur.com/5fMzLZtm.jpg (https://imgur.com/5fMzLZt)

Interior:
http://i.imgur.com/TyiO5VHm.jpg (https://imgur.com/TyiO5VH)

Pictures of exterior since PB lost them:
http://i.imgur.com/FLt2Ce3m.jpg (https://imgur.com/FLt2Ce3)
http://i.imgur.com/wf5NkWem.jpg (https://imgur.com/wf5NkWe)
http://i.imgur.com/NJvUDu2m.jpg (https://imgur.com/NJvUDu2)

Need to hook up ignition, move coil somewhere else, fix leak at oil sending unit, few other minor things and can then start it up. Need to fix brake calipers & bleed, then adjust new rear suspension before it can be driven.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by brownSpirit on 10/02/17 at 15:15:16

Looks great Jeff.  Yesterday I dropped off my car at the Monde garage for headers and clutch linkage can, can't wait to get it back.  Andy

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/02/17 at 19:18:06

What I like about his headers is he has a forming tool to recreate the dog leg into the primary tubes. I have dog leg headers which incorporate the first few inches of the primary tubes and transitions into round tube. He also keeps the pipes straighter coming out of the head than shelf headers or even my old REF’s. Then, the collector are outboard on the chassis by a considerable amount. This allows you to pull the bell housing off without pulling a header off. That’s a very big deal for a stick racer! You will be very happy!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by scott on 10/02/17 at 21:02:22

I see you have a passenger seat. Can I ride shotgun??

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/02/17 at 21:56:37

I would love to give a ride!  8-)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Airdrie AMX on 10/03/17 at 02:56:51

Great job, looks awesome! I look forward to hearing how it goes at the track.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/06/17 at 05:21:49

Made a bracket for MSD HVC II coil to mount on motor plate as I did not like the way I had installed it previously. Not sure I like it now either but it’s there to stay now. All wiring hooked up and had a problem with my new Spal 16” fan (yes, probably overkill but I live in Arizona and tired of long cool downs between rounds!), fuse kept popping and I never have electrical issues. Called C&R radiator and I confirmed the 20amp fuse I ran on the previous fan is half of what I needed! Put a 40amp in the fuse block (car was completely rewired with Painless when I first built the car in 1997) and that fixed the problem. This fan is front mount and sounds like a hurricane. Well, what I imagine they sound like, living in hurricane free Arizona....
Just have to install lower radiator hose, add distilled water and fix leaks for the oil sending unit (for emergency low oil pressure light) and a couple easy fixes and start it up tomorrow.

MSD Coil mounted:
http://i.imgur.com/gSeu3zzm.jpg (https://imgur.com/gSeu3zz)

16” SPAL fan BARELY fits!
http://i.imgur.com/ZE4VM1am.jpg (https://imgur.com/ZE4VM1a)

C& R Radiator cores are unique:
http://i.imgur.com/Hv3BQStm.jpg (https://imgur.com/Hv3BQSt)

I told C&R today this radiator I had built would work on all 1968-1974 AMC Javelin / AMX but I recommended adding 1” to each of the side ears. As I have it mounted, the fan clears (12” would be perfect for most I believe), and the top tank is just under the hood like factory. Factory hoses fit.
http://i.imgur.com/n2dmm1vm.jpg (https://imgur.com/n2dmm1v)

Cross our fingers for start up tomorrow!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/07/17 at 04:40:43

Got bothered by work today....But I did have it ready to start around 6:00 tonight but I keep the race car as low key as possible as I live in a HOA and my practice is to start / load the car mid-day so as to keep the peace. So...have a swim meet in the morning for the kids and I should be home by 2:00 and fire it up.
Today I fixed my oil leak(s), extended wires for oil sending unit & tach, filled radiator and pressure tested the system @ 10#’s and it held for 5 minutes, adjusted floats and fuel pressure, installed radiator overflow....think that covers it.
Now with around 1000 # spring pressure, it takes a 18” breaker bar and my floor jack handle over the breaker bar to rotate the engine on the stand. It will be interesting to see how the starter does tomorrow. I do have a hi-torque starter and 16v electrical. On my last engine, it sounded like a 6.0:1 compression engine when you hit the starter button.  :-?

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/08/17 at 00:55:30

Came home from swim meet where kids did a great job, all excited to hit the start and ignition switches and bleeeggggg.....not enough volts going to starter. Checked battery and it shows 16.09 volts. Hit electric fan switch...same thing, barely spins. Hardly used batter voltage yesterday. Had wife hit electric fan switch and it goes from 16v to 4v. Same with starter. Battery will carry voltage but no load.
I live in a small town of 5,000,000 and darn if I can find anybody that carries a 16v battery! Seems like I went through this before when I stepped up to 16v. I do want 16v for ignition and starter. Friend has a wet cell / sealed 16v battery and he got that due to finicky AGM batteries that just die instantly. This is my 2nd 16v AGM battery I’ve lost and apparently is attributable to me not throwing a charger on it every 45-60 days despite the battery reading fully charged. This battery has been dormant about probably 20 months so I guess my bad.
Now I wait until Monday to find a battery.  >:(
Oh...I did consider using a battery from a vehicle just to start the car but all of mine are post batteries and my AMX has cables for bolt-on terminals. And I’m not willing to change over just for one start.  :(

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/10/17 at 06:42:35

Tried battery from kids Mustang with a whopping 560 CCA. It was fully charged 12v battery and starter did turn the engine over but dropped voltage to 8.5 range. Even if it was spinning fast enough (not), not enough juice for ignition. Ordered new 16v Rock. Will be here Wednesday. Also ordered from MSD the correct “Banana” bracket for the smaller OD crank trigger wheel. It will be here Thursday. Will use distributor to start the car while I re-fabricate the new banana bracket.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/12/17 at 04:18:37

Battery arrived today and it runs! Embarrassingly, I spent over an hour trying to figure out why I did not have spark. Wired correctly, check. Online looking at MSD. White wire, jump this, blah blah. Called MSD. They said same thing. All I had to do was connect +/- to coil and ignition box to distributor (I decided to use the distributor until the banana bracket arrives, supposedly tomorrow). My fear is welding on chassis fried the box. Got off the phone from MSD and checked the LED light on the box that is supposed to come on. It didn’t. I trace power & ground wires...all good. I go to the battery in the trunk and frickin’ idiot! I forgot the power and ground to the new battery.
From there it started right up. Set timing and adjusted carb. I have timing at 35* right now but will reset to 38*.

I gotta say, and I suspected this would be the case...a 112* LSA cam sure sounds tranquil to the 109* LSA’s I have always run. Sounds pretty mundane. Especially since the car was in my garage with the nose facing the street which normally would be deafening. I even confirmed this with Adkins who has a very similar cam as mine (Redline Racing Cam). He said same thing with his. Of course WOT will be a whole other story (I hope!).

The oil pressure was rock steady at 83# cold and high idle @ 2,000. By the time it was hot and 1,500 idle (for now), it was 60# and no higher reving it. However, the Masterlube tank was not pressurized correctly at that time so those oil readings may change. Have to read up on that.

As I suspected, valve covers leak. Not a little, a lot. I have Unique Aluminum Products and have used these before with no issues. However, I used really thick SCE gaskets this time and the allen bolts I used before were to short. I bought the next longer length and then are a few threads to long and won’t allow the gasket to fully compress and seal. So tomorrow I will put regular gaskets in and the old bolts. Easier than cutting all those allen bolts. Same time I’ll recheck valve lash.

Clearview oil filtration - nice! Know immediately if you have an issue. So far, so good.

Battery is not fully charged when it arrived so I’ll take that into consideration but so far, the battery does not like a lot of starting. This is a “Rock” 16v which has 1050 cranking amps. Battery will charge overnight. Fan cooled the radiator from 160* to 140* quickly. Like, much quicker than ever. Of course the fan is a 22amp load which I may not like. As I said, I really need a fully charged battery to evaluate everything. Oh, I do have timing start retard programed the ignition.

I’ll have my son do a YouTube video this weekend.

That’s all for now. First race is 10/21.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Class Guy on 10/12/17 at 21:48:53

Whew!  Congratulations!  I'm glad all the rocks and boulders have been surpassed and this thing runs!  Can't wait to hear about the results.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by idrambler on 10/13/17 at 14:35:37

yes congrats...very nicely done...looking forward to the out come...been a while....

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/16/17 at 04:04:28

Replaced bleeder screws today using extraction socket for rounded off hex heads. First time I’ve ever used one and boy, did it work and save my butt! Because nothing else (PB Blaster, WD40, heat, tapping with brass hammer, vice grips...) was working and I was thinking MW was getting an order for 3 calipers on Monday (as I did get one caliper fixed).
Bled brakes. Checked clutch air-gap. Drained old fuel (really old..) and put in fresh fuel. Difference was amazing. Checked compression and have 185# on all. Timing is set.
Tomorrow wire two wires for MasterLube pre-oiler / accusump, put tires back on and adjust rear suspension as needed.
Will test and put a load on engine (Line2Line skirt coating break-in procedure) on a back road I just found out in the middle of the dessert maybe 15 minutes from home, probably Tuesday.
Test-n-tune this Friday in Tucson, AZ (3 hours from home) followed by a one day / two race event by the Arizona Stock / Superstock Association on Saturday.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/20/17 at 05:48:12

Did a few minor things on it today. Decided not to test on the dessert road and am heading out tomorrow afternoon for the 3 hour tow to Tucson, AZ. Gates open at 3:00, T&T starts at 6:00. That gives me 3 hours or so to go up and down the return road and do whatever I need to do. If all goes well, race Saturday.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/22/17 at 15:48:57

Loaded car on trailer and first time out of the garage. All I can say at this point, I’ve never had an AMC this responsive. Sounds wicked.
Arrived at track around 4:30. Tech’ed in. Drove around the pits and hit the return road with best attempt to load the engine by simulating a dyno was to put it in 3rd gear and maintain speed while dragging the brakes. Eventually I kinda launched the car hitting 7,000 RPM and shifting into 2nd and feathering the throttle. Car went straight and sounded great. Battery would not start after this burnout. Had to walk to my Expedition to get it and generator  & charger. It was a nice walk after a 3 hour drive. Guess it’s time to race!
Track was not prepped at all. This was your typical Friday night T&T. Unfortunately, I had the shocks and front end travel set for very good conditions. I just left that alone as I really just wanted to go down the track.
Launch was 5800 RPM. Spun off line. Actually spinning tires in all 4 gears and back end swaying. Shut off before the finish line....not really sure where as I was concentrating more on keeping the car straight. On return road, battery again dead. Gregg brought my Expedition. Took 20-30 minutes to charge this new battery (which was fully charged before pass). All I am using is fuel & water pump, ignition and starter. Engine starts quickly. Can’t find any loose connections.
Anyway, finally get the time slip. 10.87 @ 120. This is an altitude track (3,000’). Correction to sea level factor is .9640 x 10.87 = 10.47.
MPH is 1.0381 x 120 = 124.57.
So I guess a 10.47 spinning and letting off on first pass isn’t so bad. Oh....While waiting for battery charger I realized I did not lower the slick air pressure after tow! Checked pressure and it was 18#!!! Idiot. I dropped to 10# for next pass.
Back to pits and nothing but charging.
Head up to staging lanes with charger. Battery is 17.10 volts. Ignition on drops to 16.99 volts. Starter on drops to 12.7 volts. Allow battery to recover is 16.8 volts. Check voltage at battery cutoff switch and relay under hood...no problems found. And Gregg is an engineer that makes electrical stuff at Honeywell for aircraft so he’s a lot smarter than I am. We are convinced there is a problem with the battery but let’s make another pass.
10#’s in the slicks and it worse than before...can’t keep the car straight and abort the pass before I wreck the car. Ran a 14 something. Did make it to the pits on the battery at least.
Stock / Super Stock gang gathers around to check out the new engine. Nobody has ever seen a Clear View Filter. I proudly show it off and show them how I put a bicycle hand pump on it and oil is pulled off the filter screen and look! you can see....a shitload of engine particles!!! Yea, that’s what was there after two passes. Funny, oil pressure was 60# at low RPM and WOT and only wavered 3-4 #’s. By the way....I had eliminated the MasterLube before I left home as I decided that was not allowing me to know the true oil pressure of the engine. So that was not affecting the oil pressure.
After some smart heads looked at my external oil lines....the use of the nylon braided suction line from the oil pan sump to the oil pump was questioned as being to soft and allowing the line to collapse on suction (like a lower radiator hose). One of the racers with a 383 Super Stock ‘Cuda has an external oil line and he only used hard lines except about 9” of the same oil line I have but he installed a flat wound spring in that section to keep it from collapsing. See here: http://www.russellperformance.com/mc/accessories/misc.shtml
I have never heard of this part or issue.
Later that night I called my cam guy. He knows everybody from NASCAR to Sprint to Road Race & Drag race. He immediately told me how bad my hose was and NASCAR learned along time ago it would collapse and starve oil pressure / volume. All hard lines except minimal for connections; like 6”-9”.
So is this the issue? I don’t know. What I do know is I still have oil pressure that is more than adequate and the particulates are almost 100% aluminum with only a minute amount of copper so HOPEFULLY I just need new bearings and fix the problem. Should be minimal expense and downtime  ;D. Just need to find some time.
I will be adding the second external oil line by modifying the oil pan for clearance and the internal oil line this time. Oh...calling the battery guy Monday.
Will keep ya’ll posted as I progress.  ::)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by brownSpirit on 10/23/17 at 01:32:43

Well that is a bummer, sorry to hear of the troubles Jeff.  I certainly hope it ends up being a easy and sure fix.  Andy

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/23/17 at 03:16:33

Apparently the hose is rated 250 PSI burst strength but only 29” vacumm to collapse.
Spoke to one of the guys that saw the filter and he commented that the aluminum was shiny, as opposed to blackened, which is a good sign.
Just got done mopping the garage from the install. I’ll have the engine out and apart this week.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/23/17 at 21:05:49


brownSpirit wrote:
Well that is a bummer, sorry to hear of the troubles Jeff.  I certainly hope it ends up being a easy and sure fix.  Andy



Thanks!

Just got the car off the trailer. All in all, I think it was a very bad move on not only the line, but all the AN fittings snaking around the starter as well as the 12 line being reduced to the 10 line.

Just spoke to Russel @ Indy about my new Indy cover and Razor pump. It takes (1) -12 line from the pickup at the sump to the suction side of the pump and pressure out to the remote filter back into the block at the sending unit location. Even though I have an Indy swinging pickup, I ordered a fixed pickup which I will evaluate once I have it all apart to see which I prefer. He said the Razor with one line is good to any RPM I can throw at it.

Anybody have any advice on this system?

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Red Devil on 10/28/17 at 18:42:05

Sorry to hear about issues and hope not too much damage.   For the hose, if it was rated 29 inHg vacuum service, that's pretty much full vacuum, so expect pump would have cavitated well before hose collapsed ... but tough to say about hose quality?

-10 reduced size may have been more of issue, but without knowing how much oil the pump is flowing, tough to say how big the suction line should be?   Running a bigger line or dual lines is typically safer. Not sure how the Razer pump will compare to your previous setup?

Hope this helps,RD

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/29/17 at 15:14:58

Thanks for the post. I thorougly believe this is the issue and just have to learn from mistakes.
Had a two-day regional swim meet Friday / Saturday. One daughter took Silver overall in 2 individuals (50 & 100 meter Freestyle) and 2 relays (4x50 & 4x 100). In the relays, our team had a decided lead but when an olympic trial swimmer jumps in for the last leg, and is 6”-8” taller, it get’s real exciting. To get 2nd by about .400 makes for a lot of screaming! And on her two individuals in finals, also coming up short by about .300. Son took 4th overall in 200 Free and 5th in 500 Freestyle and was on a top relay team but the lead swimmer had a false start and they were out. Just like drag racing!  Other two daughters finished top 3 in their individuals but didn’t make finals.

OK...off to borrow a leak down tester. Might as well before i take the engine apart. Pulling the engine today.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by amx2334 on 10/29/17 at 20:18:33

At 3000ft a perfect vacuum is 26.8". It is a tortured path that the hose takes to the pump though. I think some kind of hard line running up along the pan would be a solution to the hose and fittings. Heat resistant also. Just a short section of quality hose to connect to the pump.
Did you use that piston coating that wears in to fit? Any chance that has anything to do with what you are seeing?

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 10/30/17 at 04:03:36

Started day with a dead battery in my driver and by the end of the day...engine still in race car.

Coating on the piston skirts is basically graphite and will not cause issues. So I’m told.

I’m in full agreement...”tortured path”... says it all!

Friend with a SS ‘Cuda showed me his external pickup. All steel line except last 6”-9” used for connection purposes. That’s what the NASCAR guys do.


Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 11/11/17 at 03:49:08

Pulled engine / trans today. I put this off as I my son had no school today and wanted him to help. Of course he was sick so  I trudged forward on my own.
Im evaluating the external oil line, I can see the drivers side offers a lot more room for not only the fitting, but no starter being in the way. Headers are more friendly on the drivers side also. I bought this pan from Bobby Shahan in Arkansas. He used a single line, non-swinging pick-up exiting the drivers side. I sealed that hole and put a swinging pickup on the traditional passenger side. Guess Bobby is smarter than I thought! I’m not sure if he was running a single line because he had a Razor pump or what. I think I’ll be calling him tomorrow.
Have Real Estate work tomorrow but after work I will perform a leak-down test just to see where I’m at before I pull it apart Sunday.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 11/14/17 at 03:58:07

Previously, before I went to the track, I did a compression test and basically with 5 pumps it was 185 PSI across the board. I’ve been told 3 pumps, 4 pumps is correct but I’ve used 5 for last 40 years.

Leak down performed on Saturday.
#1 - 14%
#8 - 11%
#7 - 12%
#3 - 20%
#6 - 30%
#5 - 13%
#4 - 36% (air rushing out intake port indicates probable bent intake valve)
#2 - 28#

Sunday. Tore down the engine. Crank is still laying on the upper bearings. Have not pulled damper and timing cover. All plugs, ports and chambers were dry (no oil film).
Crankshaft is perfect.
All bearing surfaces, not great but still have material. Several rod bearings are on a different arc than the BE of the rod. #1 rod cap is blackened. Evidence that some rod bearings were spinning. Again, crank still looks new.
Pulled main caps. None were spinning. Bearings look better, still not great. #5 was loose fit on bearings and had worse looking bearings.
Pistons. All looked great except two; #2 has scuffing on thrust side of skirt; past the Line2Line abradable powder coating. Not really that bad. However, #6 skirts look like they were sanded on the vertical with 80 grit sandpaper. There is a slight build-up of aluminum on the thrust side of the cylinder wall.

Discussed findings with Adkins and conclusion is inadequate oiling. I’m sure one more pass would have been real ugly.

I’ve got another set of rods and I’m giving up on these pistons. I have to finish striping the block and will take it to a shop and I want to make sure it’s still got round bores and the #6 cylinder will clean up. Basically, before I buy pistons this week, I need to be 100% that the block is perfect. Everything else, except the #4 intake valve (which looks fine, may be just debris on the seat), looks great; cam, lifters, etc.

For about 1/2 hour I was about to just build that NASCAR block into a NHRA SS/J 360. It’s a killer combo. But what held me back is 1) money, 2) time, 3) I want to finish this story which was originally all about building an intake manifold for a 390.
So stay tuned, as long as I don’t need a block, this will be running before the end of the year!

Pre-filter:
http://i.imgur.com/tR9rddum.jpg (https://imgur.com/tR9rddu)

Wix filter:
http://i.imgur.com/7KTnd3gm.jpg (https://imgur.com/7KTnd3g)

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 11/18/17 at 03:41:39

Replacement rod, new bearings and gaskets all ordered and in the mail.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 11/26/17 at 05:09:44

Plan of attack is new pistons, rings, bearings, hone, polish crank. Loosen up #4 & #5 main bearing clearances. Install internal oil line and drill / tap for (possible) future use of second external line. But using that new Razor pump, I don’t see that happening. Roughly speaking, that Razor pump has gears about 50% taller than factory. I plan on drill / tap / cap the secondary inlet or suction side.

Took head that had leak on #4 intake to the guy that did the work. He just retired and sold EVERYTHING! I knew he was calling it quits at 72 but I didn’t think everything would be sold. Geez...all the old guys, the ones that have forgotten more than we will ever know...are getting old! He did have his valve removal tool and we pulled the valve. There’s a MINUTE dink on the seat. We don’t think the valve is bent but we were using some junk 3/8 drill as he sold his lathe. Will look into that further.

Stopped by Total Seal and spoke to Keith Jones for bout an hour. Discussed buying new pistons and rings. He wants me to go from .043” to .9mm (about .035”). Will see. But...at the end of the conversation he asks if I ve seen the new machine shop about a 1/2 mile down the road. “No...never heard about it”. Keith tells me it’s owned and operated by Mike Ege and he’s some big time NASCAR engine builder. We don’t get a lot of NASCAR here in Arizona so I said I would drop right in.
Dropped in. I see a lot of Lazer stuff. I ask the receptionist if they build V-8’s here. She didn’t know what a V-8 was so she grabs Mike. He gives me the grand tour of his 15,000 SF facility with SIX dyno’s. SIX! 3 engine and 3 chassis. Mike is 1/3rd owner with two guys with “lots of money” and their passion is Trophy Trucks (off road Baja 500/1000 stuff) and Razer’s. So they built this facility to take care of the off road business of their team. I think they have at least 6 of them there.
I couldn’t believe just the duct and fans in the building.
So in the end, I tell him what I’ve got going and that I’m probably out of my league here. He tells me “we’re here to just have fun and let me see what we can do for you and come by with your block on Saturday and I’ll take a look see” So, what does that mean? Don’t know. So I brought my block, torque plate and old pistons / rods to him this morning. He didn’t like the barrel on the skirts as they were off-center to his liking. He also didn’t like the Line2Line coating as it’s just a band-aide in his opinion. He wants to look at some more of my parts on Monday and we will take it from there.

Google “Mike Ege NASCAR”.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 12/07/17 at 00:35:49

Dropped in Monday, 1 week after dropping off parts. No progress at shop. They said check back next Monday.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 12/19/17 at 23:37:43

Waiting on Diamond Hone for my bore size to arrive at shop. November / December...worst time of the year to get things done!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 12/19/17 at 23:41:38

On another note....my new 16v battery which I bought 3 months ago will not charge up to 17.20 volts fully charged. Last month it was 16.9, this month 16.5 volts. I spoke to Lifeline Batteries and I said while I understand I should maybe have 2 batteries, the one I bought is clearly a defect. Dave agreed and he’s sending me (2) new 16v batteries NO CHARGE!
That is great customer service and such a rarity nowadays it deserves to be mentioned!

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 12/28/17 at 07:30:08

Want to see a serious ProStock inventory? I was just on ebay about the time Warren Johnson posted these inventory parts

https://www.ebay.com/sch/warrenohnsonracing/m.html?item=332500083451&hash=item4d6a8ca2fb:g:pfUAAOSwsFpaQuFe&vxp=mtr&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562#item4d6a9a9610

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 12/29/17 at 05:34:58

Yahoo! Bores cleaned up at 4.240”. Order pistons tomorrow.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 01/03/18 at 07:53:52

pistons are in process. Of course it’s a 4-5 week lead time right now... :P

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 01/09/18 at 15:33:07

Finally....Rob @ Gibtec Pistons called yesterday and finalized the build order and I made my down payment. These are billet pistons, made to order. $1,580 which includes the DL coated wrist pins (that alone was $400 vs $195 for standard wrist pins). What Rob couldn’t figure out was why my Diamond pistons had a 1.370” wide gap between pin bosses. The SBC rod is only .993” +/-. That will be narrowed considerably which will allow a shorter wrist pin and maybe more stability.

Further adding to my build, I had a friend make me a smokin’ deal on a RacePak V300 and a whole bunch of accessories he spent $3800 on for $1500. All brand new, in the box stuff that was state of the art in 2004; not so much today but still high quality stuff. He is selling the Comp car he never finished as he just got to old. Sad.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 01/14/18 at 07:30:09

What a day yesterday! Friday 1:20 A.M left home with my son. Arrived 6:00 A.M. in San Diego area; an hour before Crower opens. What an interesting part of California; spittin’ distance from Tijuana, Mexico and it looked like thousands of acres dedicated to trucking depots and vehicle storage. And not one restaurant in site for breakfast before 7:00! Finally dined at a Subway...
Arrived at Crower and met Jerry who has worked front desk since 1968. He had Ramirez give Spencer and I a tour of the shop. They make EVERYTHING the sell there starting from billet steel or aluminum. I saw hundreds of clutch floaters for billet clutch assemblies, countless crankshafts from steel core to finished products. Rods of every size you could imagine, buckets of lifter parts, camshafts...if it’s in their catalog, it was there being made. I instantly noticed how friendly the workers were and found out that pretty much, those that start there, never seem to quit. Largest amount of employee’s was around 250 and today it’s around 170. To tour plant and have regular crew extend a hand and thank you for using their parts is not something I would expect but it was a pleasant surprise. Dropped off my rods for a full rebuild, bought a pair of Crower hoodies; just like “Big Chief” wears on Street Outlaws :) which were discounted for us.
Hit the road an hour-and-a-half later to go up north to Vista, Ca to pick up a couple of friends SBC and 460 Ford block at Tri-City Competition were Greg Luneyac just completed his famous “hot hone” on those blocks. Basically, he puts fittings on a pair of torque plates and they are plumbed to a water heater attached to his Sunnen hone. Water temp is controlled to engine operating temp and remains constant while honing. The sales pitch is it’s worth 1-3% in HP. We also had good discussions on Hard-Block, pre-heating your engine and allowing the heads to heat-soak if using hard-block and other tricks of the trade. Fascinating guy and I’ll soon be ordering a 2nd torque plate so I can do this hone at a future date. Most likely when I build my next engine; a 360 for the AMX.

Third stop of the day was Torrance, California to meet engineering staff at Edelbrock. I have had an email and sometime phone relationship with “Smitty” Smith (Technical Sales Coordinator) for at least 5 years now as he was my “go to” guy when I was trying to twist somebody’s arm at Edelbrock to R&D a Victor race AMC intake manifold. After a few years of that, I started my own R&D which finally developed into my Victor 383 MOPAR / AMC configuration which I kept Smitty abreast of progress, issues and success of. As he was aware I would be in town , he asked that I bring the intake and “meet the boys” in engineering. We met a few other engineers and even the Chief Engineer. I was very proud the Edelbrock team was very impressed with the work done on my project; especially the runner dividers. And I think that blew Spencer’s mind that Dad did something that was admired by true professionals.
Unfortunately, we were not able to meet Denise (“The Menace” over at that other AMC Forum) as he was at another facility. I did see the new “Victor Pro-Flow IV” as it will be known. It’s a great piece which will accommodate any 4150 sized TB or carburetor, has injector bungs at the base of the runners which one would use for fuel injectors, nitrous injectors, or plug if not using any type of port injectors. Also, I brought along a pair of Victor Pro-Flow II’s which Jim Schmitz converted to 4150 pads. The engineer’s noticed all three of my intakes had water outlets tapped into the driver’s side rear and wanted to know why this was an apparently popular addition. I explained my use in a cross-over and bleed system and also in the past I have crossed over the rear corners and extended (with a “T”) to the thermostat housing; something Adkins is completely against. So right there, the engineers decided the new intake would have bosses to both rear corners! I also expressed an idea in coming up with a common size for the oil-fill tube; something like 1.5” that can be bought at Ace Hardware or a common freeze-plug size if, like in my case, one wants to cap that off. They are also designing a new PCV grommet and PCV baffling. Seems Dennis heard that one loud and clear at the other forum! Finished the meeting in discussion of Jim Schmitz’s ideas on a 500 HP pump gas 360 using all Edelbrock top end and a steerable cam along with my own plans on a 360 for my next project using Edelbrock heads for SS/J competition. Left with a pair of Edelbrock Racing t-shirts and my son was truly blown away by being deep inside the “skunk works” of Edelbrock!

Last stop was off to QMP Racing to pick up my sons 4.6L modular which was receiving a stroker SCAT crank and +.020” forged pistons with SCAT H-beam rods for 4.9L. Unfortunately, the route from Edelbrock to QMP was via the 405 which is a frickin’ NIGHTMARE! That, even leaving Edelbrock at 2:30! I swear, that’s a suicidal journey. HOA land and moving along at 5 MPH average, occasionally seeing 15 MPH for what seemed like an hour at a time. But alas, finally made it to QMP.
Everything was done, loaded up and headed home in Arizona around 4:30. Only to fight more traffic. Really, California driving can be highly tortuous!
It was a good day except for traffic. Slept in the Expedition around 1:30 A.M around Blythe, California for 1.5 hours as we were BEAT. Arrived home 25 hours later and about 1,000 miles added.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Class Guy on 01/14/18 at 12:36:05

What a great story!!  I'm sure you made memories for Spencer that are indelibly etched into his brain!  Reminds me of the many trips I made to Memphis to Cam Dynamics, Racing Head Service, and TCI.  And trips to Dallas to RMS.  It is surprising to learn that the people who run those businesses are just regular folks in lots of ways.  Racers helping racers.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by Javelin GT on 01/14/18 at 12:59:55

Jeff

Trip sounded like a lot of fun.  Makes me miss living in southern California.  Traffic is the worse there.

Crower will also custom grind AMC crankshafts.  Used to be about $2500.  But they do everything in house which is awesome.

Title: Re: Grafting Mopar Victor 383 to AMC RPM Air-Gap
Post by SuperStockAMX on 01/14/18 at 16:45:19

Now that is something I didn’t think to ask; if they would take a factory 390 crank and de-stroke it to a 360 crank? We can’t have billet cranks in my racing but you can take a factory crank and do whatever you want within the specs. I’ll ask.

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