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327 Rebuild (Read 6405 times)
Ramblin65
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327 Rebuild
02/08/08 at 18:22:33
 
Hi all,
 
I wanted to start a thread to document and discuss the attempted performance rebuild of my 65 Classic's 327.  After the demise of my first engine, I had at first decided to swap out for another manufacturer's engine, tranny, rear end, etc.   embarrassed  However, due to the loss of my good buddy who was going to help me, and my own mediocre fabricating skills, I've since decided to go back to the original setup.
 
I pulled the blown engine and to my surprise, it was not actually a 327. but was indeed a 287.  It is very difficult to read the embossed bore size while it is still in the car, the 3 3/4 was mostly obscured, except for the 4 part....
 
I've located a 327 this morning and will have it to the engine shop early next week.  
 
In the meantime, my engine builder (http://www.dvorakmachine.com/) started tearing down the 287, since I wasn't sure how long it would take to find a 327 reasonably close to me.  Since I thought I might have to use the 287, he sonic checked one bore.  Interestingly enough, he said, at least with that one cylinder, he could bore it .125 on each side- .25 overall making it a 4 inch 327 bore, and still have .135 left over!  Its always been thought that the 287 and 327 blocks were different castings and there was doubt about how much a 287 could be bored, but he was quite sure he could bore it out to 4.0 and still have metal left for future rebuilds.  I still would rather start with the 327, and see how much it can be bored.  I'm sure it won't be .25 but at least .06 if not quite a bit more.
 
Anyway, Mr. Dvorak is well known for his 426 Hemi work, and seems very excited about trying to do what few try.  I told him I had an AMC 327, and he immediately said "I love odd-ball engines" and started in with discussing offset grinding the crank, custom pistons, rods, etc.  I've visited his website, and am convinced he is a good choice for this sort of project.  How much of this can I afford is the only question- but he really seems interested in working out some crank/rod/piston solutions.  
 
The plan, tentatively, is to bore and stroke the 327 as much as is practical targeting somewhere between 350 and 400 cu, zero deck, custom pistons with compression about 9.5:1, regrind the factory cam with more duration and as much lift as the valvetrain can practically stand, extensive head work, chevy valves (1.94 Int, 1.60 Ex).  I also plan on making the adapter plates to enable the use of a Gen II AMC intake.  Lastly headers, if I can afford to have a custom set made.  
 
Conventional wisdom, and from a money perspective, would be to swap to a 343, or swap in a 401 but what can I say, I'm not very conventional.
 
BTW, if I can get the first set of manifold adapter plates made, I be happy to have more made if people are interested.
 
Kerry
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abdywgn
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Re: 327 Rebuild
Reply #1 - 02/08/08 at 21:38:40
 
Good to hear you have "No Dyno"Dan on your side.I'm sure that if anybody could find some hp lurking about,
it would be him.And since he likes oddball,you may get an extra bonus with that.Good luck...maybe he could  
get the crank welded up and offset ground to lengthen the stroke.Bob
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Ramblin65
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Re: 327 Rebuild
Reply #2 - 02/08/08 at 22:20:48
 
You know or know of Dan?  He's recently lost a leg BTW, or part of one anyway, and is trying to learn how to get around on his prosthetic.  Nice guy, good sense of humor, and he obviously knows what he's doing.  As I said, its just a question of how much of his expertise I can afford.  The only bad thing with "no Dyno Dan" is that I won't have a dyno sheet to prove I have the nastiest 327 around.  Grin
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gschuld
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Re: 327 Rebuild
Reply #3 - 02/10/08 at 03:10:03
 
I'm certainly interested Smiley
 
George
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Re: 327 Rebuild
Reply #4 - 02/20/08 at 23:19:33
 
The most I ever heard for cubic inches on an AMC 327 was 418! The block can be bored and stroked a great deal. The problem is the heads flow poorly. There is an AMC web site amcturbo.com were one of the AMCers has an article on the racing Rambler American with 418 motor. LRDaum
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SC397
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Re: 327 Rebuild
Reply #5 - 03/06/08 at 18:02:53
 
I am helping my Cousin on a 327 rebuild to try to get some performance out of it.  We are adapting a Torker to it with the 1/2" spacers.  He has a higher performance cam for it via ebay.  I am going to attempt to rebuild a set of headers for it.  As I slice and dice I will keep you informed.  I agree that the limiting factor is the heads. Tiny, tiny runners and ports.  I will see if I can get him to write some more info on it for you.
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Re: 327 Rebuild
Reply #6 - 03/08/08 at 03:15:55
 
Quote from SC397 on 03/06/08 at 18:02:53:
I am helping my Cousin on a 327 rebuild to try to get some performance out of it.  We are adapting a Torker to it with the 1/2" spacers.  He has a higher performance cam for it via ebay.  I am going to attempt to rebuild a set of headers for it.  As I slice and dice I will keep you informed.  I agree that the limiting factor is the heads. Tiny, tiny runners and ports.  I will see if I can get him to write some more info on it for you.  

 
 Cool Cool
 Post up some pics of the intake if you get a chance.
 
 BTW, why not use a Performer, instead of the Torker, if the ports are that small?
 
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Frank Swygert
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Re: 327 Rebuild
Reply #7 - 03/09/08 at 02:52:09
 
The Torker is usually used on the 327, but any GEN-2/3 AMC intake can be adapted in the same way.  The front and rear parts right before and after the runners have to be cut off the intake so it will fit the GEN-1 heads. The cylinder banks are at the same angle, and the ports in the same general area, but they aren't an exact match. IIRC the GEN-1 ports are a little shorter and wider than GEN-2/3, but not by much. The 1/2" thick spacer/adapters on each side are used to blend the ports together a bit better. I don't know why it seems only the Torker is adapted -- probably because that's what the first guy who did it used, and everyone copies it. The Torker adaptation is in Dick Datson's book.  
 
One of the guys on the AMC List (Greg Taylor) compared a SBC Chevy Hillborn FI intake with the GEN-1 AMC V-8 intake. The ports are a close match, but the 1/2" or so thick adapters would have to be cut at an angle to fit the Chevy intake.  
 
By the way, it's no accident that the GEN-1 and GEN-2/3 share the same head angle and bore spacing. By keeping them the same AMC was able to reuse the same machine tools and production line to build the new engine.  
 
www.amcturbo.com has been dead a few years now, but Tom Jennings saved the site (with permission from Greg Taylor) and has 90% of the info here:  
http://www.wps.com/AMC/Rambler-327/418-cid%20v8.htm
Info on the 418 (custom pistons, crank welded and ground for a 3/4" stroke increase... lots of machine work!!) and the Hillborn FI intake is there, along with photos.
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johnthebinder
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Re: 327 Rebuild
Reply #8 - 03/12/08 at 00:01:13
 
These 1/2 inch spacer/adapters you're talking about, are the something available over the counter that I can buy or are they a D.I.Y. item?  
                                                             John
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Ramblin65
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Re: 327 Rebuild
Reply #9 - 03/25/08 at 16:54:16
 
John, they are a DIY type deal.
 
Haven't posted an update due to delays of one sort or another.  Dvorak is about to weld and grind the crank.  Looks like as much as 100 over can be bored out of the 327.  He only sonic checked one bore, and will do a full evaluation on all before we decide how big to go.  Of course it also depends on what rings we can find to fit.  Still pretty much on target with about 370-390 cubic inches.  He says that he'll be taking "a blank load" of metal out of the heads, but he believes he can get them to flow wll enough.  Chevy bb rods work without too much modification.  Bout it for now.  I'll post the specifics when I have them.
 
I would also plan to go with a dual plane manifold rather than a Torker.  I'm shooting for big block type low end torque rather than high RPM horsepower.
 
Very interested in any info on the headers.....
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Ramblin65
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Re: 327 Rebuild
Reply #10 - 03/25/08 at 16:56:56
 
Quote from SC397 on 03/06/08 at 18:02:53:
I am helping my Cousin on a 327 rebuild to try to get some performance out of it. We are adapting a Torker to it with the 1/2" spacers. He has a higher performance cam for it via ebay. I am going to attempt to rebuild a set of headers for it. As I slice and dice I will keep you informed. I agree that the limiting factor is the heads. Tiny, tiny runners and ports. I will see if I can get him to write some more info on it for you.

 
"Higher performance cam via e-bay"?  You have any more details on that because everything that I've heard is that you have to custom grind a stock cam- no one has blanks for this motor.  Any info on the cam specs?
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Ramblin65
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Re: 327 Rebuild
Reply #11 - 03/25/08 at 17:05:19
 
There was a sticky on the old AMCforums.com site where Ken Parkman flow tested the Gen I heads.  His conclusion, if I remember correctly was that they could support 400 HP.  Does anyone have access to those old threads????
 
How much of the flow problems are related to the very small valves vs the runner design?  Larger valves won't be a problem, as mentioned above, extensive porting by someone who knows what they are doing will hopefully go a long ways towards fixing the flow as well.
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Ramblin65
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Re: 327 Rebuild
Reply #12 - 05/07/08 at 14:31:33
 
Bump to see if I can get Ken Parkman to reply regarding the Gen 1 head flow information posted previously on AMCforums.com....
 
Moving slowly with the rebuild, crank still not back yet.  Sonic testing on the bore shows that we can definitely go 100 over, possibly 125.  Will probably stick with 100.  Going to see in the 6.7 inch chevy BB rods will work.  With a .25 inch stroke increase, that would give a rod/stroke ratio of 1.91.
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SC397
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Re: 327 Rebuild
Reply #13 - 05/07/08 at 16:54:49
 
I am helping my Cousin on a 327 rebuild to try to get some performance out of it. We are adapting a Torker to it with the 1/2" spacers. He has a higher performance cam for it via ebay. I am going to attempt to rebuild a set of headers for it. As I slice and dice I will keep you informed. I agree that the limiting factor is the heads. Tiny, tiny runners and ports. I will see if I can get him to write some more info on it for you.  
 
"Higher performance cam via e-bay"?  You have any more details on that because everything that I've heard is that you have to custom grind a stock cam- no one has blanks for this motor.  Any info on the cam specs?  
 
The Torker was cheap, that is why he is using over something else.  The cam was a NOS hypo cam.  You are correct there are no "new" cams for those engines so, all you can do is re-grind a old one.
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Re: 327 Rebuild
Reply #14 - 06/26/08 at 17:35:13
 
Quick update- crank's back, looks good.  Dan is in the process of measuring everything up in order to place the custom piston order.  He'll start on the heads soon.  Looks like 375 cubic inches (4.1 bore, 3.55 stroke).  Anyone have any ideas for rockers? roller preferred that I can adapt to this engine?  Originals are shaft mounted....
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