The AMC Forum - Any one use a t-101a? especaly on the street

Javman

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Any one use a t-101a? especaly on the street
03/13/10 at 04:33:55

I currently have a t-10 in my car and have broke the main shaft in my primary transmission witch is a 2.64 first gear box witch will be rebuilt but I make about 400 hp at the crank and broke it and i am planing to build a duel purpose nitrous motor and am looking at around 650hp on the spray. i want to stay 4spd but i don't know how well a faceplate trans will hold up to some street driving.

here is a pic of the inside of one

any info is appreciated

thanks

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pipefitter Forum Junkie American Motors Corporation Posts: 990 Gender: Adams, MA	Re: Any one use a t-101a? especaly on the street Reply #1 - 03/13/10 at 11:21:40 Is the inside of that transmission painted AMC blue? Now that's detailing! What is a T101a? A Super T-10? Dave Z
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Class Guy AMCrazy High Performance Too much imagination, not enough time. Posts: 335 Gender: Toad Suck, AR	Re: Any one use a t-101a? especaly on the street Reply #2 - 03/13/10 at 13:06:29 A T-101 is an aftermarket trans built on T-10 basic design by G-Force. Basically, a T-10 on steriods. Face-tooth engagement transmissions are not for everyone on the street. It takes a lot of practice and a concentrated clear mind to negotiate street traffic with one.
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pipefitter

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Re: Any one use a t-101a? especaly on the street
Reply #3 - 03/14/10 at 00:05:06

Quote from Class Guy on 03/13/10 at 13:06:29:

A T-101 is an aftermarket trans built on T-10 basic design by G-Force. Basically, a T-10 on steriods.

Face-tooth engagement transmissions are not for everyone on the street. It takes a lot of practice and a concentrated clear mind to negotiate street traffic with one.

It looks similar to the way gears engage in a motorcycle transmission.

Dave Z

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Javman

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Re: Any one use a t-101a? especaly on the street
Reply #4 - 03/14/10 at 02:06:12

Quote from pipefitter on 03/13/10 at 11:21:40:

Is the inside of that transmission painted AMC blue? Now that's detailing!

What is a T101a? A Super T-10?

Dave Z

The case is magnesium and coated with Teflon that is where it gets the pretty blue color. all the gears strait cut and there rated at 600-800 ft-lb tq depending on if it is a t-101, 101a or gf4a and you can get a 26 spline standard Chevy style input shaft and they have 31 spline outs and you can fully customize the gear set. they where used in nascar and road racing some are used in drag racing witch is what i am intending on doing.
Quote:

G-Force. Basically, a T-10 on steriods.

Face-tooth engagement transmissions are not for everyone on the street. It takes a lot of practice and a concentrated clear mind to negotiate street traffic with one.

looks like you may have some experience

I keep looking at buying one so how bad are the shifts. I know you can destroy one if not shifted correctly and you can either use the clutch or let up on the gas and clutch less up shift or on the down side blip the gas and down shift clutch less. how many face plates would one go through figuring out the transmission

My current setup is a standard AMC t-10 with a Hurst ram rod inline and ram 6 pad brass with a ram diaphragm pressure plate. So I am used to a little difficulty around town especially down shifting your fingers get a workout.

My car is a street strip car. I need to be sure i can use it on the street some. I don't care about the noise or difficulty as long as it won't just eat the very expensive parts. I have the feeling a t10 will not hold up to a nitrous car well as I have seen the case of one shatter on a buddy's SS car when he blew first gear and he has been through basically a transmission every time he races it so he no longer will run it at the track Thought his issue is he side steps the clutch instead of loading the clutch and backing out.

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scott Forum Junkie High Performance American Motors Corporation Posts: 502 Wildwood, PA	Re: Any one use a t-101a? especaly on the street Reply #5 - 03/14/10 at 13:40:20 Why not look into a modern 5 speed like a TKO-600??? You'll get strength, a low 1st gear, & overdrive. And it will be easy to drive on the street.
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Class Guy

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Re: Any one use a t-101a? especaly on the street
Reply #6 - 03/14/10 at 14:18:06

A Jerico DR-4 is stronger than the T-101. Even the old-school Doug Nash 5-speed is stronger.

The only problem with the new transmissions is that nothing shifts like a face-tooth race transmission. They will make even a novice sound like they know what they are doing.

You need to get rid of the diaphragm pressure plate and six-pad disc. That's a recipe for parts breakage.

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Javman

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Re: Any one use a t-101a? especaly on the street
Reply #7 - 03/16/10 at 04:29:15

Quote from Class Guy on 03/14/10 at 14:18:06:

A Jerico DR-4 is stronger than the T-101. Even the old-school Doug Nash 5-speed is stronger.

The only problem with the new transmissions is that nothing shifts like a face-tooth race transmission. They will make even a novice sound like they know what they are doing.

You need to get rid of the diaphragm pressure plate and six-pad disc. That's a recipe for parts breakage.

you think it might be too agressive and why I have so far broke every thing behind the motor?

if I went with a t-101 I wold probably go with a spec stage 3 and B&B or Long style pressure plate or is that too agressive

and on the Nash box are you talking the faceplate torq tube race ones or the street versions. I have herd of people breaking the gears in the street Nash and Richmond 5 and six speeds with only 4-500hp I do like the new Richmond 5 speed in the six speed case though

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Class Guy

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Re: Any one use a t-101a? especaly on the street
Reply #8 - 03/16/10 at 16:40:23

McLeod Soft-Loc setup is a proven place to start. It's a Long-style PP with full face disc. Much better control over the transition from not-enaged to engaged. Much less shock to the drive train parts.

The street Richmond 5-speeds are manufactured with 8620 steel gears. The race model Doug Nash 5-speed used 9310 nickel gears.

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Mr Man

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Re: Any one use a t-101a? especaly on the street
Reply #9 - 03/16/10 at 17:49:58

Like Class Guy is pointing out it's more the torque and the shock loading from the old school increased clamping pressure as opposed to newer thinking disc material friction increase that breaks 'em. In short, the old school clutches that require an elephant leg to engage and the torque, or twist, that accompanies 350 ish hp and above break the trannies. You can have the gear teeth made from unobtanium and still break if the case is twisting and the clutch pickup is sudden and using brutal pp pressure. Angry

The cast iron case and physically bigger gears and shafts will counteract the affect of twist. The newer clutches will counteract the affect of suddenly applying gobs o' torque to the case and gear shafts . The twist is why they make the uber gears because the misalignment caused by bending shafts breaks the gears, not hp or even the torque number- but how it's applied. Inherently stronger trannies usually have more centerline overlap ( same idea as having more centerline overlap in a crank assembly, bigger gears, larger shafts ) and stiffer cases ( top load style ).
The trans teeth above do look like a motorcycle trans and if you've experienced the snick, snick, snick crispness of gear teeth with the dog clutch synchronizing– an H pattern synchronizer trans feels mushy and imprecise by comparison. A step in the right direction is with a rail shifter trans. Then having straight cut gears with full face engagement as CC describes is next. Finally, having a sequential transmission would complete the quick crisp feel and operation. But for this discussion having gear teeth that engage fully and completely, a rail type shifter, and a modern progressive clutch system would improve feel and reliability.
Steve

Steve

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SKeown

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Re: Any one use a t-101a? especaly on the street
Reply #10 - 03/17/10 at 02:44:09

I use the origional T-10 that came in my 68 AMX. It's fitted with the W ratio 2.64 gear set including nickle input & cluster. I drive the car on the street and run mid 10s at the track. I use the Hurst Comp Plus I origionally installed in the early 1970s and leave the line between 7000 & 7500 RPM.

Here is what I can tell you, focus on the clutch, install an adjustable pressure plate and iron disk. When I had a McLoed 2400# pressure plate leaving at 6000 RPM the rear view mirror would slap the roof and eventually stripped the teeth off the input gear. Now leaving at 7500 the mirror doesn't even get out of focus.

I highly recommend Tim Hyatt owner of Hyatt Racing products for the go to guy regarding clutches. I struggled for nearly a year with an assembly from another supplier, only when Tim fixed it and I listeneed to his advice was I able to race without irritation.

It's all in the clutch, not the transmission.

SKeown

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needafasterAMX Forum Junkie American Motors Corporation Posts: 741 Tallahassee, FL.	Re: Any one use a t-101a? especaly on the street Reply #11 - 03/17/10 at 03:32:15 I wonder how long this one would last. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI2fGeL7DEE&feature=related Its at the line that kills most of them, Like Class guy said, its all in the clutch to make them live.
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Mr Man

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Re: Any one use a t-101a? especaly on the street
Reply #12 - 03/17/10 at 04:31:30

It's not entirely the clutch but from Skeown's experience and example you can see that shock loading is the bottom line. I doubt a clutch alone would allow say, an SR4 to live behind a healthy AMC launching at high r's, you still need the basic ability to handle the torque that eventually gets inputted into the case and gears. That Keisler trans behaves like an H pattern motorcycle trans with gears that engage more like dog clutching even though in the parts sweep in the video you can see at least vestigal synchro rings and only a little hint of the interlocking dogs that make up a true dog gear trans. However they do it though, the video doesn't lie when you witness the clutchless shifts!

Steve

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needafasterAMX

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Re: Any one use a t-101a? especaly on the street
Reply #13 - 03/17/10 at 06:00:29

The SR4 will live with enough slippage and I mean a lot to were you won't be doing anything Grin

We know where you are coming from. Transmissions have torque ratings, when you start to go way be on the trans rating, sooner or later you may have problems, Thats a given.
But you do what you can to make it live as long as you can.

That video did not show the dogs, Top secret, They were showing the stock sinks that the dogs replaced.

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74 AMX, 401
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3:73 TG rear now 3:15 with trutrac
A Turbo is in my future.

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Mr Man

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Re: Any one use a t-101a? especaly on the street
Reply #14 - 03/17/10 at 14:25:27

The only thing that looked close to dog clutching in the video were those funky looking rings that looked like the inside of a starter or alternator with the spaced perches inside. Thought those might be Keisler's TS parts and was some weird new approach to dog engagement. Grin

Makes more sense now that that was a pan over the stock crap that would be replaced, especially when I saw synchro rings. Wink

Part of the strength of that trans will be the dog clutching as it literally slides the next gear into locking on the shaft and into alignment with its partner on the other shaft.

Steve

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