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Intake Gaskets - Edelbrock Heads/Manifold (Read 5704 times)
javsst
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Intake Gaskets - Edelbrock Heads/Manifold
04/13/10 at 18:15:29
 
Guys -
 
I going to pull off the RPM Airgap on the 360 in the AMX for two reasons:
 
1.  I can't get better than 10 inches of vacuum even though I had around 16 or so last year before the rod incident.
2.  I'm getting oil onto the bottom of the PCV grommet even with the metal plate that Edelbrock provides to install beneath  
     the PCV.
 
I currently am using only the SCE intake gasket set.
 
So the question is, anyone who's installed the Edelbrock Aluminum heads and alum manifold, what did you do for
intake gaskets?
 
The instructions for the heads indicate to use the FelPro sheetmetal gasket, however, the instructions for the AirGap indicate
that you must use the sheetmetal gasket, PLUS the Edelbrock intake gasket set.
 
I believe that when I tried to use the sheetmetal gasket and the SCE gasket set, I couldn't get the intake bolts to align properly.
The SCE gasket's are .062 thick. and I noted that the Edelbrock gaskets are .060 thick.  I would think if I had alignment problems,
it'd still be a problem....
 
This car is driven on the street btw.
 
Anyway, your opinions and comments are welcome as always! Smiley
 
Thanks!
 
Steve
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1969 AMX BBO 360/TF727 AMC20 4.10 Gears
1970 Javelin SST BSO 360/BW T10 AMC20 3.54 Gears
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Re: Intake Gaskets - Edelbrock Heads/Manifold
Reply #1 - 04/13/10 at 19:33:18
 
Here is what has and is being used on mine.... except I dont use the end rubber pieces, I have been taught to use rtv ultra in place of those.... Used black rtv to seal the water ports and permatex high tach or #2 around the intake ports.... Eddy heads and Torker intake... the high tach, although a lil messy during application, did an outstanding job at holding my gaskets in place while putting the intake on and kept my port/gasket matching alignment perfect.... Smiley can not commetn on the valley pan gasket, never used one....  
 
 
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-800G/
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Re: Intake Gaskets - Edelbrock Heads/Manifold
Reply #2 - 04/13/10 at 20:41:40
 
I don't know were you read that, But I am using the metal stock intake gasket on mine , with no problems, and my PCV is dry.
 
All my oil consumption is going around the rings as near as I can tell. It is tired.
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Re: Intake Gaskets - Edelbrock Heads/Manifold
Reply #3 - 04/26/10 at 01:22:46
 
Guys -  
 
Well using the metal gasket with silicone and permatex #2 didn't work out too well.  Engine ran worse and
less vacuum.
 
Took off the manifold and the permatex didn't even dry up over three days.  Guess it was old or something,
should of bought a new tube before installing the manifold.
 
At any rate, I think I'll use fibre gaskets this time around along with a bead of silicone for the end rails.
 
That's what I used originally and didn't appear to have all these issues.  Well, other than throwing that rod Wink
 
Let you know how it turns out Smiley
 
Steve
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Re: Intake Gaskets - Edelbrock Heads/Manifold
Reply #4 - 04/26/10 at 02:23:46
 
I use the MR gasket  set with a valley pan gasket trimmed to fit upside down!
 Actually the valley pan gasket is only used as a valley pan and has the gasket portion trimmed off , Pan inverted and notched for pushrod clearance. helps keep oil in its place(out of the PCV sys/off of the bottom of intake manifold)
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Re: Intake Gaskets - Edelbrock Heads/Manifold
Reply #5 - 04/26/10 at 13:40:07
 
Nice solution.  
 
Not sure if the Crane Roller Lifters with the tie bars would be a problem, but I still have the metal gasket, so I'll check it out.  
Is the remainder of the stock gasket just laying over the lifter valley?
 
Otherwise I'll try just using the fiber gaskets again.  Although the PCV grommet had oil on it, the PCV didn't appear to
be bad at all.  Plus the car wasn't smoking.
 
Since I'm getting a lot of practice pulling the manifold off, I can always change it out later once things settle
down and the engine and car are broken in. Wink
 
Steve
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Re: Intake Gaskets - Edelbrock Heads/Manifold
Reply #6 - 04/26/10 at 19:33:32
 
Very carefully check the fit of the intake under the shoulder that sticks out to support the valve cover gasket. I had one Air Gap where the casting above the ports was high and caused a bind with the shoulder, and a vacuum leak from below the intake. Did the thing ever suck oil when you lifted the throttle.
 
This was on an iron head engine; I've not has the edelbrock/air gap combo. Not sure how the shoulder compares, but check it out for binding.
 
You must use a valley pan gasket with the air gap - do not use the paper gaskets. The little edelbrock pcv baffle will not do the job by itself.
 
Do not use rtv near fuel. I use a very small skim of rtv around the water ports, and ordinary gasket sealer on the intake ports. I don't even bother with the intake port sealer on my own stuff as long as the surfaces are good.
 
If it leaks vacuum with the valley pan gasket there is something wrong. Measure the old gasket to see if you can find where it is not crushed correctly, check everything for angles, fit, surfaces, binding, and anything else. While Edelbrock actually does have some sembalence of engineering and quality control, way better than most, they are still an aftermarket company so don't assume the part is right. You cannot expect an aftermarket company to match the factory for quality. Maybe sometimes, but that is rare.
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Re: Intake Gaskets - Edelbrock Heads/Manifold
Reply #7 - 04/26/10 at 20:07:01
 
Ken -
 
The embossed part of the ports were not even crushed on the metal gasket.
 
I do have the aux oil line within the valley, however, I checked the Air Gaps clearance
using putty on top of the oil line and it wasn't keeping the manifold from seating.
 
What's weird is that the manifold was fine on the heads last year before I had a problem
with the rod.
 
I guess I can bolt on the manifold dry on each side then use a feeler gauge to see if there's a gap,
at least from the top.  
 
The other possibility is to use the Torker I have.  It's an original design Torker and it has the
factory PCV pan attached on the bottom.
 
Steve
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Re: Intake Gaskets - Edelbrock Heads/Manifold
Reply #8 - 04/26/10 at 20:50:50
 
If the embossment was not even crushed there is some kind of a fit problem; different gaskets likely will not help. You must figure out what's wrong. Drop the intake down without a gasket and see how the surfaces line up. Check for bind, flatness, angles, etc . Then see what the gasket thickness does to the fit.
 
The oil line is a pain with a stock gasket. Often you can carefully locate a hole in the gasket and install the oil line after the gasket, or better still you could simply plug the holes and get rid of the line.
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Re: Intake Gaskets - Edelbrock Heads/Manifold
Reply #9 - 04/26/10 at 23:57:24
 
Thanks!
 
I'll check the fitment on both sides as soon as I can.
 
As a FYI, I called Edelbrock and mentioned that I can't get the bolt holes to line up if I follow the directions  
that came with the AirGap, which says to use the metal gasket as well as Edlebrock or Mr. Gasket/similar
fiber gaskets.  Their recommendation is to use only the fiber gaskets and silicone for the end rails.
 
Since I'll be running the car at the track from time to time, I'd like to keep the oil line in place, but
I'll check the clearance again between the line and the bottom of the manifold just in case.
 
Steve
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Re: Intake Gaskets - Edelbrock Heads/Manifold
Reply #10 - 04/30/10 at 17:16:53
 
Guys -
 
Just as a follow-up, I checked the manifold to head match and it appears good.  The oil line doesn't have any interference.  Used my
piston to valve clearance tool (Play-Doh) Smiley to check.  The manifold doesn't touch the line.
 
I followed the Edelbrock instructions to the letter this time.  Used Gas-Ga-Cinch to set the edlebrock gaskets onto the heads, a thin
smear of silicone around the ports.  Then the Fel-Pro gasket with some more silicone around the ports on the manifold side.  A line
of silicone front and rear on the rails.  
 
This time I used a die grinder on the bolt holes of the manifold to ensure that until the manifold is seated all the way down, there wouldn't
be any alignment issues with the holes.  There weren't any.
 
Took a mirror and made sure that the manifold was sealed off at the front and rear.
 
Sooo.....  Waited two days now and tomorrow I'll put the coolant back in and put the dist back in.  And we'll see if the vacuum leak
is fixed.
 
If not, I'm suspecting a problem with the manifold.....
 
Steve
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Re: Intake Gaskets - Edelbrock Heads/Manifold
Reply #11 - 05/01/10 at 23:51:54
 
Ah well...  Still about 11 inches of vacuum.  Then again, maybe I'm dreaming I had 15 inches last year.  The cam
has .572 lift, so vacuum may be on the light side.
 
Another problem I noticed is that the engine temp climbed to about 200 degrees while I drove it around the block
even with the twin fans on manual.  I'm think that either there's still a large vacuum leak somewhere, which in at
this point I'd say the runners underneath in the valley.  Or the advance was to far.  Also I used a 16psi rad cap
and the original is 13psi.  Another factor was the heat today.  Temp hit around 95 degrees.....  
 
Tomorrow I plan on removing the thermostat to make sure it not a problem and may as well take the valve covers
off and go over the lash again.
 
This keeps up, I'm gonna park the car and just drive the Javelin this year..... Smiley
 
Steve
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Re: Intake Gaskets - Edelbrock Heads/Manifold
Reply #12 - 05/02/10 at 00:34:39
 
In my experience, retarded timing makes it run hot.  
I had a too big for the street cam that worked OK until I adjusted the valves.  Then I didn't have enough vacuum for the brakes at idle.  Could you have made other adjustments that could cause the change in vacuum?  
ralfy
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Re: Intake Gaskets - Edelbrock Heads/Manifold
Reply #13 - 05/02/10 at 00:58:14
 

 I noticed you mentioned Play-Doh for P to V clearance. Be careful with that, it gives a false reading, doesn't compress like standard modeling clay, it springs back.
 
 SKeown
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Re: Intake Gaskets - Edelbrock Heads/Manifold
Reply #14 - 05/02/10 at 02:38:45
 
SK - Thanks.  I think you're right.  Last engine build I did I used modeling clay and not Play Doh.  That was a long time ago, so memory isn't all that great anymore Wink
 
In this case, I think it would be ok to use it to see if the manifold was even touching the oil line.
 
AMXRalf - I'll go over everything again just in case.  I'm hoping I don't have to pull the manifold again, but if I do , I will.
 
I'll figure this one out yet.  
 
Just had a thought on this.  It's possible that I installed the timing set incorrectly.  I'll need to check the instructions, but it was one of those late nights and I lined up the dot on the cam gear to the circle on the crank gear.  The crank gear has three settings,
5 degrees retarded, straight up and 5 degrees advanced.  The symbols are a rectangle, circle and triangle.  Wouldn't be
the first boneheaded maneuver I've  made!  If this is the case, that'll teach me to trust my memory and not go back
to the install directions.... Smiley
 
 
Steve
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« Last Edit: 05/02/10 at 14:42:15 by javsst »  

1969 AMX BBO 360/TF727 AMC20 4.10 Gears
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